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Quote from Fox about frum magazines
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amother




Plum
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 7:37 am
allthingsblue wrote:
Ectomorph, why do you think Mishpacha readers are sheep who don't think for themselves?
I read the interesting, informative articles and completely disregard the ads for Swiss vacations $4000 wigs and designer clothing. Just like I don't covet a Tiffany ring or Chanel jacket after I read The NY Times.

Not ectomorph...I do like her posts though
I think it still seeps in. I have a pretty non materialistic life, but every time I read one of those ads, articles, etc, I do have a brief thought of wouldn't that be nice. And then I laugh, but the idea probably seeps in.
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ectomorph




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 7:47 am
allthingsblue wrote:
Quote:
ectomorph, why do you think Mishpacha readers are sheep who don't think for themselves?

I read the interesting, informative articles and completely disregard the ads for Swiss vacations $4000 wigs and designer clothing. Just like I don't covet a Tiffany ring or Chanel jacket after I read The NY Times.

Edited to add that I do think the ads are problematic and not consistent with Torah lifestyle but that's in every magazine unfortunately. However, are not a communist society, the magazines can do what the want (which is why I don't really care if there are no pictures of women and although I hate the heavily made-up girls in ads, I don't boycott the magazine).

I don't think that at all. And Ami, Binah is no different - it's just that I'm personally more familiar with Mishpacha.

I do think it seeps in. That's why in my house I only get Yated Neeman. Out of all the newspapers it has the fewest ads and the most wholesome content, although I definitely object to its content as well sometimes.

I agree with what Fox said. That it seeps in and becomes the aspirational lifestyle of our teens.
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amother




Amethyst
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 7:48 am
this is Ectomorph anonymous color, so I can't be accused of anything, lol
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sky




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 7:51 am
I just was reading the binah magazine for the first time In A long time and was shocked to see the reviewing of baby gear in very high price ranges. They were saying the doona is a must. It’s an expensive must for one year and puts way too much pressure on young mothers who are already pressured because everyone has it.

I do take issue with previous posters asking for intelligent female writers. How degrading! The majority of writers and editors!! Are female. And intelligent and write and research amazing articles. And writing it like that is insulting to the women who work so hard and invest so much time.
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amother




Bronze
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 7:58 am
Lol, I think the Yated is basically a frum tabloid. Written in a sensationalistic style, yellow jounalism, whipping people into a frenzy. Look, I don't want to start a Rubashkin debate, but I feel the Yated inadvertently caused some of his legal woes. If it hadn't been so over the top with the blood libel accusations which led to an angry, ill advised and very public campaign on his behalf, he probably would have had a quiet, non noteworthy court case where the judge didn't feel the need to prove her power and the weight of the law.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 8:07 am
Seeing something beyond your budget often gets people to splurge on something less pricey in order not to be deprived. Stores do this all the time. The kids who have been denied every cool toy in Amazing Savings will finally get some of the "can't go home without it" junk at the check-out.
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amother




Bronze
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 8:25 am
I don't think the splashy ads are aimed at kids, though. They are aimed at adults.

Anyway, the reality is that frum people are more sophisticated than they were 20 years ago. They don't want to read a publication that looks like it was run off on a ditto machine and stapled by hand.
I don't have a problem with that. I like to read well written and aesthetically pleasing publications.

Yes, not all that is published in Mishpacha is stellar writing (I refer mostly to the fiction) but they have had some excellent pieces with very elegant writing. (The Ami is kind of one note. Also with that sensationalistic OMG medical emergency! style. And Binah's quality has sadly gone down a bit in the past years.)
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 8:35 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
I don't think the splashy ads are aimed at kids, though. They are aimed at adults.

Anyway, the reality is that frum people are more sophisticated than they were 20 years ago. They don't want to read a publication that looks like it was run off on a ditto machine and stapled by hand.
I don't have a problem with that. I like to read well written and aesthetically pleasing publications.

Yes, not all that is published in Mishpacha is stellar writing (I refer mostly to the fiction) but they have had some excellent pieces with very elegant writing. (The Ami is kind of one note. Also with that sensationalistic OMG medical emergency! style. And Binah's quality has sadly gone down a bit in the past years.)


Sometimes the ads for stunning jewelry might be the inspiration for the purchase of a cheaper piece. I was just using the example of buying unnecessary stuff because it mitigates feeling deprived and nobody wants to go home with miserable kids.
Stores usually offer several price ranges to get people to shop in the middle rather than to forego a purchase.
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sky




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 8:50 am
In fairness to the magazines I still don’t think they are showing anywhere close to the wildest extremes. When I was researching vendors for my bar mitzvah I came across Instagram accounts and part planners that just boggles the mind. They made the magazines look tame and cheap.
For example
https://www.instagram.com/thes.....hl=en

And if you check out the instagram accounts of the top decorators referenced in another thread - the magazines don’t even address close to those levels.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 8:53 am
Zehava wrote:
Well I roll my eyes at the tablescapes that’s for sure. Do people really do all that for a YT meal or picnic?


Next: jello molds.
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amother




Honeydew
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:08 am
sky wrote:
In fairness to the magazines I still don’t think they are showing anywhere close to the wildest extremes. When I was researching vendors for my bar mitzvah I came across Instagram accounts and part planners that just boggles the mind. They made the magazines look tame and cheap.
For example
https://www.instagram.com/thes.....hl=en

And if you check out the instagram accounts of the top decorators referenced in another thread - the magazines don’t even address close to those levels.


Some of these examples showcased in this actual account were actually staged for the mishpacha lol. Most recently the aleph beis circus.
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ddmom




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:11 am
For all the people that don't bring those magazines into your homes for haskafic reasons, what do you read? What do your children read?
I certainly dont agree with everything that's written but I think it's a nice springboard to discuss different ideas with my family.
I can't imagine not having anything to read at all.
So I'm really curious, do you read anything else? What about your children?
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amother




Apricot
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:17 am
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
Magazines like that are 99% fluff. Made up of no real substance. What an insult to the intelligence of the frum world that it’s gotten so big.

I'm guessing you don't read them. There was a learning curve, the beginning was rough but the content has come a long way. I would also like to mention that most frum female writers for the mags are on this site. They invest a tremendous amount of time researching and interviewing for their articles and for someone who clearly doesn't read the magazines to brush them off as all fluff is super insulting.
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amother




Orange
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:42 am
ddmom wrote:
For all the people that don't bring those magazines into your homes for haskafic reasons, what do you read? What do your children read?
I certainly dont agree with everything that's written but I think it's a nice springboard to discuss different ideas with my family.
I can't imagine not having anything to read at all.
So I'm really curious, do you read anything else? What about your children?


As far as magazines, my kids love National Geographic. I review it first for untzniyus pictures. I don't love National Geographic because of the leftist agenda. We do still get Mishpacha because the kids like it.

So we try to have discussions with our kids to help them see the point of view of the authors of both Nat'l geographic and Mishpacha, and explain where dh and I disagree and why. Now how's that for balance? Confused
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urban gypsy




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 10:12 am
allthingsblue wrote:
I read the interesting, informative articles and completely disregard the ads for Swiss vacations $4000 wigs and designer clothing. Just like I don't covet a Tiffany ring or Chanel jacket after I read The NY Times.


That's an interesting comparison. For me, I feel like the Tiffany and Chanel isn't directed towards me, but the Pesach hotels and $4K wigs are, so I feel differently about seeing them. Nobody I know wears Tiffany and Chanel, but most people I know go to Pesach hotels and wear designer wigs. If I'm being perfectly honest, the ads and other content in the frum magazines makes me feel terrible. I don't like the feeling I get from reading them so I rarely do. My favorite parts are the letters to the editor and the anonymous confessionals, they are hilarious.
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iyar




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 10:14 am
PinkFridge wrote:
Next: jello molds.


PF I always love your posts-
But this time you outdid yourself!
As for the “frum” magazines we’re ranting on about - it’s not so simple. As the secular world degenerates into previously unimaginable depths of immorality their publications are less and less likely to be brought into Jewish homes. You might say- I’m capable of thinking for myself thank you very much and I’m not going to start engaging in licentious behavior just because I have that magazine in my house. But then there’s the problem of do you want your kids looking at that? And the problems of kefira and immoral attitudes (totally apart from the lack of tznius) that creep into our minds and color our thinking without us even noticing.
There are several solutions. Read only Tana”ch, sifrei mussar and Halacha. Don’t read. Read only biographies of holy people. (That won’t work btw- enough has been written about the pitfalls of reading those that I don’t need to list them.) Buy a “kosher” magazine. Yes the one that got imamothers upset with the over the top tablescapes and ads for vacations that cost more than we spend on half a dozen kids’ tuitions.
We’re left deciding who’s going to lead us astray: a kofer and pervert, or a frum lady who’s overly obsessed with buying her girls matching socks.
In the end we each read what we choose. I’m not going to point the finger at anyone and say she made the wrong choice. I do miss the Jewish Observer. Chaval al d’avdin. We live in a market driven society. Sadly it seems there wasn’t enough of a market for that kind of writhing.
As for me, I’ll be looking out for those jello molds in my next pre-Yom Tov gourmet supplement.
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sky




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 10:32 am
I love the hamodia - somehow the ads aren’t as splashy (now that they switched to a magazine it maybe more so). They take less political sides then the Yated. The cooking pages are normal food. There are no product reviews. The articles cover a diverse set of topic. The news articles geared to kids are interesting.
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tigerwife




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 10:50 am
I’ll be the odd one out. There are some fantastically creative and artistic frum women out there and I’m glad they get to showcase their talents in magazines and have an outlet (and Parnasa!) in designing beautiful things, be it tablescapes or one year old birthday parties. Should all women be forced to work in boring, mind-numbing fields because somewhere, someone will be jealous and decry the need for ostentation when no one even forced her to copy?

I feel the same about bugaboos and designer clothes and fancy weddings. I can enjoy a stunning gourmet wedding as a guest without feeling like the pressure to one-up. Let’s focus on keeping our eyes on our own wallets and needs. You can’t change the world; you can work on yourself to be more confident and sameach b’chelko.
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Fox




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 10:50 am
There are a few elements that I think are being overlooked:

Subliminal Messaging
The first is the subliminal effect of repetition. If you've ever advertised in a periodical, you were probably told by the advertising salesperson that inserting a single ad is useless. You have to repeat advertisements in order to permeate readers' consciousness. If you've ever seen ads that occupy the right-hand column of the page on successive pages, this is the same strategy. Seeing something once doesn't make an impact. Marketing and advertising experts can tell you with some certainty exactly how many times a reader will need to see a particular advertisement based on various criteria in order to recall and/or act on the message.

This is a bigger problem with Instagram. I got rid of both Facebook and Instagram after the latest round of purges, but Instagram hits every single persuasive button: imagery; motion; repetition; peer approval, low-level action required, etc. It's a persuader's dream come true.

The idea that one can simply be discerning and reject these messages goes against 75 or more years of research on how people are persuaded and influenced. Of course, this is precisely why gedolim over the years objected to TV, movies, etc. They realized that our brains are susceptible to certain types of messaging despite our best efforts to the contrary.

The Reader's Dilemma
seeker wrote:
I'm kind of stuck in the middle here because I don't like the lifestyle issues you're all talking about, but I do love to read and I do find the the magazines I choose provide an overall healthy supply of reading.

Virtually all of us on Imamother are big readers, at least by comparison. If we weren't comfortable with text, we wouldn't be here. We want to read things that will raise us spiritually (or at least not send us backward!) yet engage us and meet whatever needs we have for relaxation and entertainment.

Personally, I like leisure reading that is not necessarily about frum Jews or the frum community, but is written from a frum perspective. With the exception of Zman, that's not currently a reality.

So my problem becomes, "What makes a book or periodical 'kosher'?" Is it the subject matter? Is it an absence of s-x and violence? Are the characters frum Jews?

Here's where I find myself conflicted.

If I pick up a copy of People magazine in the doctor's office, there is a degree of separation between me and the subject matter. There is a clear line of "I am not like them" on any number of fronts.

But when a book or periodical is published and marketed by frum people, I unconsciously let my guard down a bit. There's not that clear line between me and whatever is in the pages. That's where the danger lies. Not only am I susceptible to subliminal messages, I'm making myself more open to overt messages, too.

Forward to the Middle
Nobody wants to be a nagging sourpuss, lecturing people about every bit of luxury in their lives or discouraging them from applying their creativity to setting a beautiful table or training their own dancing bears to perform at simchas.

How do we enjoy material blessings without going overboard? How do we encourage creativity and hiddur mitzvah without raising standards to the point where only an elite class can feel accomplished? There is obviously a middle ground, but nobody gets excited by the rallying cry of, "Onward, troops! To the middle!"

Even more interesting, how do we encourage professional artisans to create Judaica if everyone makes kiddush with a plastic cup?

I don't have many answers at this point, but it's something I think about a lot.
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amother




Bisque
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 11:29 am
I don't buy any of these magazines, but friends sometimes give them to me for the recipes.
Maybe because I live in Israel and find that many of the more ostentatious ads seem to be US oriented, I look at it as an amusing glimpse into a different world. My kids tend to read more in Hebrew - they love Marve L'tzama, and books. Those of my kids with enough disposable income buy an average of a book a week between them!
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