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Comparing the border situation to the holocaust???
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amother




OP


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 3:43 pm
https://www.foxnews.com/entert.....tion-camps

Now this guy from the NYT is repeating what occasio ortez said. Should they be allowed to make light of the holocaust?
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icedcoffee




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 3:53 pm
I don't see it as making light at all. The Holocaust didn't start out as sending people to the gas chambers - we can't turn a blind eye to atrocities and say "oh, it's not exactly at the level yet of the Holocaust so call me back when we get actual death camps." What's the point of saying "never again" or "those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" if we're not actually going to stand up against human rights abuses when it happens? Put simply, you can focus your indignation on someone using the term "concentration camp" or you can focus it towards the people who are s-xually abusing children, forcing them to sleep in their own urine and feces on a concrete floor, tearing families apart, not providing basic hygiene, ok, I know where my anger is facing and it's not towards the people trying to end the suffering. Also, this is far from the first time that the term concentration camp has been used to describe something other than the Holocaust.
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amother




Indigo


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 3:54 pm
What people dont understand is that Jews were citizens of their countries and had their rights revoked before being sent to concentration camps whereas illegal aliens have no right to enter this country simply because they want the freebies that the American govt gives them (and that many American citizens dont get despite being homeless and hungry). That said, I am not sure why illegal aliens deserve anything better than American citizens who are homeless and living on the streets without access to food, hot water for showers, electricity, bathrooms, etc. Either way, it is offensive to compare the shelters for illegal aliens to the concentration camps that Jews were sent to in Europe. This pic explains the difference between them--

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DrMom




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 4:00 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/new-york-times-ocasio-cortez-concentration-camps

Now this guy from the NYT is repeating what occasio ortez said. Should they be allowed to make light of the holocaust?

Of course AOC is "allowed" to compare facilities for illegal aliens to concentration camps. She has freedom of speech just like any other US citizen.

And I am allowed to think she is a twit.
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 4:33 pm
amother [ Indigo ] wrote:
What people dont understand is that Jews were citizens of their countries and had their rights revoked before being sent to concentration camps whereas illegal aliens have no right to enter this country simply because they want the freebies that the American govt gives them (and that many American citizens dont get despite being homeless and hungry). That said, I am not sure why illegal aliens deserve anything better than American citizens who are homeless and living on the streets without access to food, hot water for showers, electricity, bathrooms, etc. Either way, it is offensive to compare the shelters for illegal aliens to the concentration camps that Jews were sent to in Europe. This pic explains the difference between them--



Well, first things first. We need to do more for our homeless. Everyone is entitled to food and shelter. Everyone is entitled to medical care. EVERYONE. We need to do better for these people.

Do you know what the conditions are for people detained at the border? The Justice Department recently argued, in court, that the government is not required to provide migrant children in custody on the border with soap, toothbrushes, or adequate bedding. A consent decree guaranteeing “safe and sanitary” conditions, the government argued, is too vague to be enforceable.

Children spend days in facilities with 24/7 artificial light, no beds, cold cement floors, and only an aluminum blanket for insulation. (The government initially argued that that sleep is not guaranteed because it is not spelled out in the language of the Flores agreement. “One has to assume it was … not enumerated by the parties because either the parties couldn’t reach agreement on how to enumerate that or it was left to the agencies to determine.")

Conditions in the migrant detention centers are horrific. Both sides agree -- just read Trump's comments.

And frankly, anyone who doesn't have sympathy for these conditions, particularly as to children, lacks a heart.

Should they be called "concentration camps"? Well, not every "concentration camp" is a WW2 death camp. In fact, the camps where the US placed Japanese people during WW2 were also called "concentration camps." But if you want to object to the term, go ahead. I'm not going to argue against you. Just don't try to justify the absolutely inhumane conditions.
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Raisin




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 4:46 pm
There is a difference between a plain old concentration camp and a death camp.

Concentration camps were set up long before the final solution as places for Jews and political prisoners. No gas chambers, yet.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org.....ps-1933-39
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amother




Indigo


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 4:47 pm
amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:
Well, first things first. We need to do more for our homeless. Everyone is entitled to food and shelter. Everyone is entitled to medical care. EVERYONE. We need to do better for these people.

Do you know what the conditions are for people detained at the border? The Justice Department recently argued, in court, that the government is not required to provide migrant children in custody on the border with soap, toothbrushes, or adequate bedding. A consent decree guaranteeing “safe and sanitary” conditions, the government argued, is too vague to be enforceable.

Children spend days in facilities with 24/7 artificial light, no beds, cold cement floors, and only an aluminum blanket for insulation. (The government initially argued that that sleep is not guaranteed because it is not spelled out in the language of the Flores agreement. “One has to assume it was … not enumerated by the parties because either the parties couldn’t reach agreement on how to enumerate that or it was left to the agencies to determine.")

Conditions in the migrant detention centers are horrific. Both sides agree -- just read Trump's comments.

And frankly, anyone who doesn't have sympathy for these conditions, particularly as to children, lacks a heart.

Should they be called "concentration camps"? Well, not every "concentration camp" is a WW2 death camp. In fact, the camps where the US placed Japanese people during WW2 were also called "concentration camps." But if you want to object to the term, go ahead. I'm not going to argue against you. Just don't try to justify the absolutely inhumane conditions.

Look at the pictures below. These poor, poor kids deserve homes and bathrooms and showers and good food. But wait, they are American citizens so you have no problem with the way they live. Well, the good news is that the illegal aliens can stay in their own country where they are better off than many American kids who are forced to live in these conditions--
Picture resized


Picture resized

Its ironic that illegal aliens are complaining about the conditions of their temporary shelters in America as they come across as spoiled and entitled (who actually had it good in their country of origin) instead of people who are escaping persecution. So I ask you again, why are illegal aliens entitled to get services and benefits that American citizens dont get?
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Raisin




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 4:58 pm
I doubt the people coming across the border have it so good. No one living a normal lifestyle would choose that.

Personally, my great grandparents were economic migrants from a mildly anti semitic country (pre war Poland) . I'll bet their life in Poland was ten times better then life in modern Mexico or Guatamala. I am so so grateful to Britain for letting them in, even though there were plenty of people (including Jews) who thought just like goldenrod and saw no good reason to let them in these weird, yiddish speaking people. (they might take our jobs! We need to look after our own!)
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 4:58 pm
amother [ Indigo ] wrote:
Look at the pictures below. These poor, poor kids deserve homes and bathrooms and showers and good food. But wait, they are American citizens so you have no problem with the way they live. Well, the good news is that the illegal aliens can stay in their own country where they are better off than many American kids who are forced to live in these conditions--
Picture resized


ROFLMAO. No, honestly.

I said, "We need to do more for our homeless. Everyone is entitled to food and shelter. Everyone is entitled to medical care. EVERYONE. We need to do better for these people." And yet you claim I don't care about Americans.

People are fleeing from human rights violations and violence. And yes, it would be lovely if that didn't exist. But your statement that people seeking asylum should just go home reeks of the sentiments against Jewish refugees from the Soviet Union, and from Europe before that. I cannot imagine that degree of lack of empathy, to think its OK for a child not to have access to a toothbrush.
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amother




Aubergine


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 5:13 pm
amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:
ROFLMAO. No, honestly.

I said, "We need to do more for our homeless. Everyone is entitled to food and shelter. Everyone is entitled to medical care. EVERYONE. We need to do better for these people." And yet you claim I don't care about Americans.

People are fleeing from human rights violations and violence. And yes, it would be lovely if that didn't exist. But your statement that people seeking asylum should just go home reeks of the sentiments against Jewish refugees from the Soviet Union, and from Europe before that. I cannot imagine that degree of lack of empathy, to think its OK for a child not to have access to a toothbrush.


They are economic refugees for the most part. They are coached on what to say. 90% of them don't show up for their asylum hearings anyway. Once they have court orders to go home, they ignore those. The problem is there isn't infinite resources to pay for medical care and housing for everyone. We should take care of Americans first before we take care of the BILLIONS of people who want all the benefits we give to illegal immigrants.

Americans are now saying they are immigrants to get the free health care being given out on my county. How messed up is that?

Where does all your generosity end? The people in other countries have it worse than the central Americans. Our economy is going to become an inverted pyramid with the few supporting the many. The middle class will no longer be contributing because the tax burden will be too high.

In California illegal immigrants get free health care. They estimate it will cost $98 million. Wrong. You will cost double, triple, quadruple that because it is only going to attack more illegal immigrants. Some California cities are literal cesspools of human excrement and disease.
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amother




Indigo


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 5:15 pm
amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:
ROFLMAO. No, honestly.

I said, "We need to do more for our homeless. Everyone is entitled to food and shelter. Everyone is entitled to medical care. EVERYONE. We need to do better for these people." And yet you claim I don't care about Americans.

People are fleeing from human rights violations and violence. And yes, it would be lovely if that didn't exist. But your statement that people seeking asylum should just go home reeks of the sentiments against Jewish refugees from the Soviet Union, and from Europe before that. I cannot imagine that degree of lack of empathy, to think its OK for a child not to have access to a toothbrush.

Your words are empty. It means nothing when you say that we need to do more for our homeless when all you care about and speak out against is the conditions at the temporary shelters for illegal aliens. Where is AOC when it comes to her own constituents who are homeless? Why is she silent about it and focused on illegal aliens?

Democrats just voted to give millions if not billions to illegal aliens, why do they get this kind of money when citizens need it desperately?
Its really nice that you want toothbrushes for the illegal aliens who have shelter but what about American citizens who have no shelter at all?
Would you be ok with putting all the American citizens in the shelters currently used for illegal aliens and put the illegal aliens on the streets in tents instead? If not then explain why you dont do something to ensure that every American citizen has a safe home to live in before you complain about illegal aliens who actually (and ironically) do have shelters to stay in.

Oh, and many American citizens are going to Mexico for medical treatment as well as to retire so dont bother saying that the conditions are bad in that country. We have plenty of gangs and violence in America (with shootings happening all the time) so there is no guarantee that these illegal aliens will be safe in America (especially if they owe these gangs money). And no, this is not like the Jews who ran for their lives as they were singled out because they were Jewish so don't bother comparing it because it will show that you dont really understand what its like to be attacked because you are different than the rest of society (which is not the case with these illegal aliens either).
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leah233




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 5:16 pm
Had she compared it to slavery there would have been major outrage.


But comparing a flawed system for processing an overwhelming number of illegal immigrants to a system of genocidal hatred is totally OK and makes perfect sense when the victims were Jews.

Or any other group AOC, The NYT and co considers to be "them"
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Raisin




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 5:23 pm
I assume all of you talking about Americans are talking those people with actual Native American blood, right?

Oh wait, that doesn't work to have that as a criteria, Mexicans and other South/Central Americans have Native American blood too.
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amother




Smokey


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 5:28 pm
Life in the Pale of Settlement, circa 150-100 years ago was much worse for Jews than these immigrants, I assure you. Many Jews were literally starving, not to mention the terrible pogroms of that time.
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amother




Indigo


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 5:29 pm
Raisin wrote:
I assume all of you talking about Americans are talking those people with actual Native American blood, right?

Oh wait, that doesn't work to have that as a criteria, Mexicans and other South/Central Americans have Native American blood too.

Actually, most of their ancestors are from Spain which is why they speak Spanish (AOC even acknowledged that her family is from Spain and possibly morronos) so the guilt trip wont work but nice try.

ETA- Its interesting that Jews still live in South America despite all the so called dangers that illegal aliens are claiming there is-- https://www.jta.org/2012/09/10.....re-booming

https://hiplatina.com/jewish-c.....n-america/

Chabad also seems to have a strong presence in South America despite all the so called danger surrounding it-- https://www.chabad.org/centers.....merica.htm
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amother




Jade


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 5:31 pm
Unjust laws are unjust. It's not automatically justified because it's the law.
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amother




Aubergine


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 5:33 pm
Raisin wrote:
I assume all of you talking about Americans are talking those people with actual Native American blood, right?

Oh wait, that doesn't work to have that as a criteria, Mexicans and other South/Central Americans have Native American blood too.


What do you call people from the United States? United Statesians?

Frankly, to be technical Native American is not politically correct either. Why should indigenous people be named after a map maker?

I wish I were PC. How much fun I could have calling everyone out who I deem offensive even though they are clueless. As it is I only call out PCers when they are being hypocrites.
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amother




Aubergine


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 5:33 pm
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
Unjust laws are unjust. It's not automatically justified because it's the law.


Do you actually think borders are unjust ?
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amother




Aubergine


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 5:50 pm
amother [ Indigo ] wrote:
Actually, most of their ancestors are from Spain which is why they speak Spanish (AOC even acknowledged that her family is from Spain and possibly morronos) so the guilt trip wont work but nice try.


You need to do a bit of fact checking. They speak Spanish because that's what the conquerors spoke. Most of their ancestors are not from Spain.
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simcha2




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 5:52 pm
I reported this as it should clearly be in the politics forum with anon disabled
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