Please prepare me with what necessary precautions are

amother

Sun, Jun 30 2019, 10:53 pm

Hi,
I vaccinate all my children on time and I don't want to discuss or debate on this thread why I should or shouldn't so please respect that.
What I want to know is what are the necessary precautions I should take if I had a newborn that was too young to vaccinate. If my titers are high enough that I am immune to measles, is the baby born immune too? If so, how long does immunity last 100%?
Also, how can I keep the baby properly isolated in the following scenarios:
1. If I plan to go back to work. is there a way to ensure that the babysitter I bring to who also babysits other kids and babies is safe for my baby? What if she allows drop ins? or would I need to give up my job and stay home for at least six months to truly protect the baby? What do other working mothers do? I know it's also possible for me to hire a babysitter in my house but that's much more expensive, and how could I really insure that that babysitter is really immune? (Assuming I hire someone that's a stranger to me, and just ask for references - I suppose it would be real easy to fake a name or something? Also woulds it be rude to demand immunization records?)
2. It the baby is not immune, then how is it safe to give birth in the hospital where you don't stay in a private room? What about visitors coming to the hospital, do they all have to have had their titers tested recently?
3. The last time I had a baby I hired a baby nurse 24 hours for a few weeks to help with the baby at home so I can recuperate and also tend to my other children. I wonder if this is still safe / possible - again because how could I really ensure the baby nurse is immune?
4. if I chose to go to a kimpeturen heim instead like Monroe or Skvere or Lakewood, is that safer in that regard? I guess it would depend on the place and how strict they are with who can access the nursery? Can anyone specify which place is the safest if any?
5. I understand weddings are a big no-no as far as bringing the baby, but if I just wanted to go and leave the baby home with the babysitter, again would that be unfeasible if I don't have actual babysitters I really know? (I usually use babysitters who babysit for many people - not people I really know personally).
6. what about being with the baby outdoors. What are the risks of catching Measles if I go out on my front steps or go around the block on a walk with the baby with many other kids outside playing? And if not, would that be a health issue for the baby as far as being deficient in vitamin D due to lack of sun exposure? Would I need to supplement vitamin D?
7. How is it then safe to bring the baby to the pediatrician for all the well visits - can't it be that someone who unknowingly has measles is in the waiting room? I know there was a pediatrician recently who closed their office for two hours one day because of a case like this. I genuinely don't understand how this is safe. Same question really - can I bring the baby along if I have to bring any of the older kids to the doctor's office for any reason?

8. When can I finally stop with all the precautions - can I assume that two weeks after getting the MMR the baby is immune? or do I have to actually test titers? I hate pricking blood tests for babies. If I can just assume immunity, so I can hopefully give the shot at six months if baby is not sick then and then two weeks after the precautions can stop?
9. my oldest DC is 12 years old. Can I assume all the older kids are immune without testing titers since they all got their shots on time? At what age can immunity wear off? I assume my DH has to have his titers tested.
9. I assume I should not bring the baby along to any errands like grocery shopping or other shopping. Is just driving with baby in the car to the gas station okay? or driving just to move the car for alternate side parking? I would have to walk to the car maybe up to a few blocks sometimes since we don't have a driveway, so if walking outside is not okay then I really don't understand how that's doable. I guess I would only be able to go out if DH brings the car to the house first, so never go out without him?
10. What about using car services or Uber - is it safe to do - since I can't know if the driver is immune or not?
11. Is there any real hope that the outbreak will end at any specific time soon, and the need for precautions will truly go away?
If it makes any difference I live in Brooklyn. Also I understand plenty of people just live their life without so much precautions and just hope and pray for the best but I really would want to do my utmost of precautions that I possibly can.

Seashell

Sun, Jun 30 2019, 11:28 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Great questions. I think the only one qualified to answer the above questions is your pediatrician. Call or make an appointment to discuss.

amother

Rose

Sun, Jun 30 2019, 11:42 pm

I’m sorry but this sounds like severe anxiety. And I vaccinate all my kids on time.

shanarishona

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 12:48 am

Very thorough questions. I mostly stayed home for six months. I asked baby sitters and baby nurses if they were immune. Good idea to discuss with your doc

dankbar

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 1:03 am

Thats why everyone needs to vax so those that are at risk are protected, but you cant live in a bubble either & isolate yourself from the entire world.
Aishes chayil is very strict now only allowing moms whose immunity is up to date. Someone told me her she lost her immunity & right after baby she took vaccine in order to be able to get into aishes chayil.
Nurses from state/city agency need to check their immunity to everything every year.
Pediatricians who are very strict with vaccines dont have patients with measles.
My ped throws you out of his practice if you are not up to date with all vaccines for kids.
You have to use common sense & avoid crowds with little kids especially indoors.
Any babysitter, in or out, you can ask if they are immune & the kids.
Hospitals screen before letting anyone in these days.

JoyInTheMorning

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 3:36 am

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

I’m sorry but this sounds like severe anxiety. And I vaccinate all my kids on time.

Either severe anxiety, or OP is an anti-vaxxer who is clumsily trying to point out that vaxxing doesn't alleviate all concern. (I have my doubts about other anonymous posts who say they vaccinate all their children as well. There's a certain naive writing style, passive-aggressiveness, and similar style to many of the posts. I am not accusing all these amothers of being the same person; I am just wondering how many PEACH fans are posting as amothers who supposedly vax all their kids on time.)

No, vaccinating doesn't alleviate all concern. But:
(1) Vaccinating makes it much less likely that your children will get sick. Consider that a baby is more likely to get it from siblings than others, so the greater the chance that the siblings are immune, the greater the chance that your baby will get through the first six to twelve months of its life without getting the measles.
(2) The more people vaccinate, the greater the community immunity, and the less anybody has to worry about babysitters and Ubers.

Nothing is 100%. Rational behavior is characterized by making the decision that is more likely to give beneficial results, for oneself and for others.

(This is a quick pop-in post; I'm deluged by work. I'll be back posting on some of the threads in this forum soon. There are some that I've been itching to post on, but I haven't had time.)

southernbubby

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 9:13 am

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

Either severe anxiety, or OP is an anti-vaxxer who is clumsily trying to point out that vaxxing doesn't alleviate all concern. (I have my doubts about other anonymous posts who say they vaccinate all their children as well. There's a certain naive writing style, passive-aggressiveness, and similar style to many of the posts. I am not accusing all these amothers of being the same person; I am just wondering how many PEACH fans are posting as amothers who supposedly vax all their kids on time.)

No, vaccinating doesn't alleviate all concern. But:
(1) Vaccinating makes it much less likely that your children will get sick. Consider that a baby is more likely to get it from siblings than others, so the greater the chance that the siblings are immune, the greater the chance that your baby will get through the first six to twelve months of its life without getting the measles.
(2) The more people vaccinate, the greater the community immunity, and the less anybody has to worry ab

out babysitters and Ubers.

Nothing is 100%. Rational behavior is characterized by making the decision that is more likely to give beneficial results, for oneself and for others.

(This is a quick pop-in post; I'm deluged by work. I'll be back posting on some of the threads in this forum soon. There are some that I've been itching to post on, but I haven't had time.)

Because the anti-vaxers use manipulative tactics, nobody wants to negotiate with them. They may have a point that they have a right to die of meningitis, Hepatitis B and cervical cancer, but because they are so "off the wall" the government is forcing them to die of old age like everyone else.

dankbar

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 10:38 am

You crack me up! Southern Bubby!

dankbar

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 10:40 am

Lock your baby into a closet for first 6 months of life

naomi2

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 10:57 am

The best thing you can do for your baby is breastfeed. That would be the best protection. Also, when you bring your baby to the dr office, try to get the first appointment and stay in a separate room front he sick patients.
Also, maybe skip the hep b vaccine in the hospital.
Also, you need to calm down

amother

Azure

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 11:08 am

southernbubby wrote:

What's this negotiation business? If they have a point, they have a point. If not, not. Since when is public health policy based on negotiation and manipulation and if someone is "off the wall" or not? Do you even hear yourself? Is this a democracy?

dankbar

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 11:17 am

Theres democracy & rights when it affects no one but themselves, but when they are a danger to society thats when law enforcement comes in.

You dont care if a guy walking down the block has a graffitti-d tshirt & purple nose but when hes holding a gun in his hands & shooting, you will want police to get him & lock him up etc...

amother

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 11:28 am

Hi OP here
I love how imamother always turns every thread into an interesting, unexpected twist.
On a serious note, yes I do have anxiety and mental health issues in general but the tone of some posters who point that out is not necessary helpful.
I honestly am clueless about what precautions are normal and what borders onto paranoia. If you would have asked me a few months ago if not stepping into the grocery store with baby in tow was paranoia I would have certainly thought it was but as I have since learned from imamother plenty of women were advised to take that precaution by their pediatrician.
I appreciate the helpful responses. I would definitely discuss this with pediatrician but for various reasons that conversation will have to wait a little bit and hearing actual answers now is really helpful to me to calm me down.
It's easy to just tell me to "calm down" but anyone who can relate to how I feel knows that knowing actual facts that things won't be as awful as I imagine is much more effective than telling me a blanket statement that I should just "calm down".
To the poster that said to hold off on the hep B vaccine in the hospital, what's the connection here?
Also how exactly does breastfeeding help?
Does it pass on the mother's antibodies to the baby better then simply giving birth does?
Or is there some secret magic to breastfeeding that I am unaware of?
Also I am aware that nurses working for city and state agencies have to get their immunity tested anyhow, but that's not applicable to baby nurses I would potentially hire to help me at home. Or is there indeed a baby nurse agency that is state or city regulated? I don't know of any. So again I don't understand the relevance here to the poster who said that.
From what I understand here being outdoors is considered less of a risk than being indoors? That definitely makes things easier.
If anyone has any more helpful information to share, please do.

Iymnok

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 11:33 am

The first thing is to clearly understand how the virus spreads.
The next is to assess the risks in a given situation. Going to your mother is a much lower risk than a Chanukah party this past year.

dankbar

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 11:42 am

You might be able to get help from an hha agency which is covered by insurance, where they are expected to have a physical every year etc.

nchr

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 11:52 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Generally, the immunity from the mother's uterus, lasts around 6 months (for mother's who were vaccinated or who had natural measles); however, it is not a perfect science and does not mean your child will be immune.

1. Using a reputable baby sitter who does not allow drop ins would probably be your best bet. There are day cares that require vaccination records be submitted. Look for something like that. The health dept. may be able to direct you to places like that. Also, most baby sitters cannot handle more than 3 or so babies - so find a place and find out if those parents also vaccinate. You can ask the babysitter if she is vaccinated.

2. Many hospitals are not allowing visitors due to the outbreak. Hospitals are pretty good at managing disease transmission - not all a/c vents are connected, etc. Also, there are not hundreds of people walking around with measles. Most people with the measles feel very sick and are not running around visiting people in the hospital. It is unlikely your child will be exposed to the measles during its stay in the hospital after its birth. Hospital staff should all be vaccinated.

3. If the nurse you hired is a professional, you can ask her for her vaccination records and/or proof of immunity through titer testing.

4. Neither Monroe nor Skver allow any visitors at this time because of the measles outbreak. It is also unlikely that unvaccinated mothers with active measles infections will be there because their measles would have been picked up at the hospital when they gave birth.

5. You cannot be a healthier "carrier" of measles so if you are immune then you cannot go to a wedding and "bring measles home" to your child. Use a babysitter who you know is vaccinated - or ask family to watch your child - or forgo weddings.

6. I'd refer this question to a doctor.

7. Usually infants are brought to the first appointments (early morning) so that sick children are not around then. Your doctor will also do whatever he can to make sure children are not exposed to measles. Ask for the earliest appointment so you are the first patient there.

8. Refer this to the doctor as well - since we do not know how effective the vaccine is at 6 months of age. The pediatrician should have the most updated info from the CDC.

9. Your baby cannot catch the measles from being in a car with you. You can get gas, but it is never a good idea to leave any child, regardless of age, unattended in a car.

10. The issue with taxis is probably if an unvaccinated individual who happened to have hte measles was in the car within two hours of you being there - if you live in an area heavily effected, you have no way of knowing who was in the car before you. That is more of a concern than the driver, who is likely vaccinated (but of course you cannot really know - but you can assume he wouldn't work sick whereas sick people may use taxis to get to doctors).

11. Since this outbreak is centered around the Jewish community its likely either all of the unvaccinated with get measles and be immune, or that the new vaccination laws will stop it. You'll need to monitor the outbreak. There were outbreaks in the 1990s that did not go on "forever."

You can only do what is reasonably feasible to protect you and your child, which also includes davening. Speak to your child's pediatrician about all of these questions as well.

southernbubby

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 2:05 pm

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

The complaint now is that not all vaccines provide herd immunity and therefore should not be part of the mandate. The law at the moment forces people to give some vaccines that for them personally, the benefit doesn't outweigh the risk and the world is likewise not more dangerous if they skip those shots.
They might have a better crack at ammending the law in their favor if they stick to those points and skip the manipulative drama.
The OP here is legit so I apologise for thinking otherwise.

amother

Azure

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 4:38 pm

southernbubby wrote:

WHY IS IT LAW IN THE FIRST PLACE??? Why do we need anti-vaxxers to try and amend the law? Why isn't everyone up in arms about a public health policy that is law and has zilch to do with public health?

southernbubby

Mon, Jul 01 2019, 5:09 pm

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

I guess that it's for the same reason that silver nitrate drops used to be put in the eyes of all newborn babies, even though they didn't all need to be treated for gonorrhea. Everyone else went through a useless procedure in order to prevent blindness in the babies of infected mothers. It helped some babies and didn't appear to harm the others.

Some frum people are unfortunately in danger of illnesses that develop by way of lifestyle choices but many will never encounter these illnesses. This of course differs from the infectious diseases that used to sweep through communities causing tragedies.

Some illnesses however, such as meningitis, are so devastating, that even if they don't cause epidemics, nobody should risk catching it.

The Tdap, combines one vaccine for public health and 2 for personal health against serious illnesses. Unless it's reformulated, that's the way it's given.