Home

Why don’t CNN/MSNBC report this?
Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> In the News -> Politics

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 04 2019, 4:05 pm
Fox wrote:
Correct. They are analogous to the Russian Communist Party, which began post-1917 to drown out any opinions that were deemed "counter-revolutionary."

You seem to think that the KGB and its excesses emerged fully developed in October 1917. It didn't. It was a gradual process, with each small increment being almost imperceptible in people's lives. Moreover, each small incremental control was defended with thoroughly logical explanations.

As Ectomorph said, Google doesn't have the power to torture or imprison us. But if you think they would turn down such power, then you're truly ignoring history.


It was pretty bad in 1917. It wasn't that much of a gradual process, as much as, as Solshensytn said himself, the people ignoring the arrests of the peasants etc. Summary executions (Red terror was literally from 1917) are not = shadow banning.

Continue with the analogy if you want but I've lost any interest in a topic that would have interested me otherwise.


Theoretical power is not the same as realized power and the USA happens to be set up quite brilliantly so that power is checked. Not perfect at all but it's the worst form of government except all other forms of government.
Happy Fourth of July!
Back to top

Fox




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 04 2019, 4:05 pm
gingertop wrote:
I think that this analogy 1- is disrespectful of the people who suffered and died under the KGB 2- confuses private corporations with a govt with absolute control 3- makes me tune out any consideration I would give to any issue

I was just in Ukraine and visited some of the shuls and cemeteries there and was reminded once again how the Soviets so salted the earth for Hitler's few survivors. We also used to have FSU girls over for Shabbos (I was friendly with a teacher of a school that recently closed). The amount these girls had to fight for every teeny bit of their heritage (and normalcy in general) makes me balk at shadow-banning as a comparison to being sent to the Gulags for learning alef beis.

I can argue for days about the most trivial of issues but the minute the comparisons to literal MASS murderers come out, it warps the issue so badly that I just can't.

This is a friendly PSA that some people get turned off. Ze hu.

You keep ignoring my main point, which is that all of the atrocities you mention came as a result of totalitarianism.

What I and others are saying (and saying and saying and saying) is that totalitarianism, no matter where it comes from, doesn't start with mass murder. It starts with small, benign actions that may seem beneficial. Only over time does it morph into what you are describing.

However, your accusation that I am comparing shadow-banning to mass murder is a complete lie and thoroughly beyond the pale (no pun intended).
Back to top

Fox




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 04 2019, 4:06 pm
gingertop wrote:
Continue with the analogy if you want but I've lost any interest in a topic that would have interested me otherwise.

Just as well. I have no interest in defending myself against the disgusting lies you've put forth about anyone comparing shadow-banning to mass murder.
Back to top

gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 04 2019, 4:10 pm
Fox wrote:
You keep ignoring my main point, which is that all of the atrocities you mention came as a result of totalitarianism.

What I and others are saying (and saying and saying and saying) is that totalitarianism, no matter where it comes from, doesn't start with mass murder. It starts with small, benign actions that may seem beneficial. Only over time does it morph into what you are describing.

However, your accusation that I am comparing shadow-banning to mass murder is a complete lie and thoroughly beyond the pale (no pun intended).

And you keep ignoring my main points that the murder was there from the start and that government power does not equal corporate power.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your (plural you because you weren't the first or the only one to bring up this analogy) analogy. But what are you trying to say about the KGB in in this analogy if the mass murder isn't part of it?

If I compare something to KGB (which was done on this thread) , I'm obviously comparing to their bad deeds, not their taste in cars- no?
(And as an aside- the KGB was only from 1954- I think we can all agree that things went to #$## by then)

Great pun btw, even if unintentional.
Back to top

Mayflower




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 04 2019, 4:16 pm
I think it's appalling that parents would use their 8 year old daughter by making her mock a politician they don't agree with. Great chinuch.
Back to top

Fox




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 04 2019, 4:19 pm
gingertop wrote:
And you keep ignoring my main points that the murder was there from the start and that government power does not equal corporate power.

So your argument is that totalitarianism cannot exist without government? Where do you draw the line between control exerted by corporations and control exerted by government? If banks refuse to allow you accounts, is that not a function of totalitarianism, even if they are private corporations?

gingertop wrote:
I'm sorry if I misunderstood your (plural you because you weren't the first or the only one to bring up this analogy) analogy. But what are you trying to say about the KGB in in this analogy if the mass murder isn't part of it?

We are comparing their role as a secret agency responsible for enforcing the ideology of the Politburo of the Soviet Union. For everyone they tortured and killed, they intimidated many, many more people into silence and acquiescence.

Do I think that Google is likely to start shipping dissenters off to labor camps or torturing people in the basement of their headquarters? No, don't be ridiculous -- at least not anytime soon.

Do I think that they will intimidate people who are afraid of the consequences of disagreeing. Yes. They already do.

No one is trying to trivialize the atrocities committed by the KGB or any of the agencies that pre-dated it. But I feel you are trivializing the role the KGB and similar secret police organizations had/have in silencing ordinary people on a day-to-day basis.
Back to top

gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 04 2019, 4:19 pm
Mayflower wrote:
I think it's appalling that parents would use their 8 year old daughter by making her mock a politician they don't agree with. Great chinuch.


And I think politicians should be mocked endlessly. That's what's great about America. No royalty. Using kids is icky, tho. And unstable adults sending death threats is unconscionable.
Back to top

Fox




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 04 2019, 4:22 pm
gingertop wrote:
And I think politicians should be mocked endlessly. That's what's great about America. No royalty. Using kids is icky, tho. And unstable adults sending death threats is unconscionable.

This we can agree on. Teenagers, okay. But kids under 12? No -- for so many reasons I can't list them all. Shut down the drag kids, too, for that matter.
Back to top

gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 04 2019, 4:28 pm
So I don't think that intimidation of losing followers is comparable to the intimidation of being sent- like millions of others- to literal death. The reason people were so scared of the KGB is because of what they were capable of doing and did in spades.

In America, I may be shadow banned for saying certain things. But I don't have to fear for my life or the life of my children.

Not all intimidation is created equal. Comparing the types of intimidation where any wrong step could lead to 10 years hard labor to what's going on on social media is either trivializing life in the USSR or catastrophizing life in America.
Back to top

Mayflower




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 04 2019, 4:28 pm
Fox wrote:
This we can agree on. Teenagers, okay. But kids under 12? No -- for so many reasons I can't list them all. Shut down the drag kids, too, for that matter.


I agree 100% with Fox.. And to think I was expecting this evening to be unextraordinary.
Back to top

gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 04 2019, 4:30 pm
Mayflower wrote:
I agree 100% with Fox.. And to think I was expecting this evening to be unextraordinary.


And so do I! So I think I'll call it a night.
Back to top

Fox




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 04 2019, 4:33 pm
Mayflower wrote:
I agree 100% with Fox.. And to think I was expecting this evening to be unextraordinary.

Ah, but do you agree with me about the inherent idiocy of the NY Regents Exam system? That's what really counts!

Well, that and handbags!
Back to top

Laiya




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 04 2019, 4:37 pm
gingertop wrote:
So I don't think that intimidation of losing followers is comparable to the intimidation of being sent- like millions of others- to literal death. The reason people were so scared of the KGB is because of what they were capable of doing and did in spades.

In America, I may be shadow banned for saying certain things. But I don't have to fear for my life or the life of my children.

Not all intimidation is created equal. Comparing the types of intimidation where any wrong step could lead to 10 years hard labor to what's going on on social media is either trivializing life in the USSR or catastrophizing life in America.


Getting shadow-banned isn't terrible, but the problem is where it will lead. I'm more concerned with how the silencing of certain political views on social media may have the potential to sway future elections.
Back to top

Brooklyn Mom1




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jul 05 2019, 12:38 am
Any wonder why some of us are dear.... questioning vaccines?
Back to top

yo'ma




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jul 05 2019, 7:50 am
Fox wrote:
This is probably the most important subject that no one on Imamother has much interest in discussing.

Forget the cable news networks. They're the least of the problem.

The bigger problem is censorship and manipulation on the part of Google, Facebook, Twitter, and their subsidiaries.

The other day there was something wrong with social media or whatsapp, things weren't downloading well. On our family chat, one of my brothers posted an invitation for a kiddush. Some of us couldn't open it, so I mentioned the problem. One of my brothers joked, "must be a conservative post". Very Happy Confused
Back to top
Previous  1, 2 Recent Topics

Page 2 of 2 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> In the News -> Politics

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Don't want to be alone in Israel? New aliyah group 0 Wed, Dec 04 2019, 2:27 pm View last post
Don't want my daughters to sleep over at Shabbaton anymore
by amother
18 Mon, Nov 25 2019, 6:23 am View last post
Don't have a school? 42 Thu, Nov 21 2019, 8:56 am View last post
"Facts don't care about your feelings" is about feelings
by amother
6 Sun, Nov 17 2019, 6:52 pm View last post
Everyone thinks I don’t work 20 Sat, Nov 16 2019, 11:07 pm View last post

Jump to: