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Forum
-> Working Women
-> Teachers' Room
keym
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 Sat, Jul 06 2019, 11:01 pm
I would clarify what exactly the recess rules are and how many bathrooms there are.
When I was a girl, we had 6 toilets for 60 girls in our grade and a ten minute break. That's not very much time. We ended up using the entire recess waiting for the bathroom. No snack, no drink, no playing.
The same school, when we had outdoor recess, only 5 girls in the entire 5th-8th grade were allowed to go in to use the bathroom. We waited until girls came out.
But then, we would go back to class, most of us having not used the bathroom.
The same issue if students go straight from an hour bus ride, wait outside on line and then can't leave for the first hour of class. My sister had a teacher that didn't allow any bathrooms at all without a Dr note before 11. But realistically, a child can leave the house at 7:45 so.....
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amother
Amethyst
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Sat, Jul 06 2019, 11:03 pm
In my upper elementary years I had a teacher that had the pass policy. She was really strict about it.
One day I had to use the bathroom and had no passes left. I was afraid of the teachers harshness so I didn’t even bother asking.
And I couldn’t hold it in. Will spare you the details but I was not a little kid.
Yes I know girls can abuse it. But teachers should know their students and not be unnecessarily strict in this area.
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amother
Khaki
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Sat, Jul 06 2019, 11:28 pm
I am surprised there are teachers like this still around. Honestly, teachers like this are just asking to get in trouble. Like my administrator has said many times, no higher ups will back the teacher who denied the student and caused a problem. I don't see how it's different than any other classroom management issue.
And as a student I hated the teachers who made a big deal out of it. Recently a teacher from my school passed away, there were laudatory essays written about her in a major magazine, and all I could think of was the time she humiliated me and made me beg to be allowed to go to the bathroom in her 7th grade limudei kodesh class. (Yes she let me. After I asked a second or third time, saying I didn't feel well. Very humiliating for a sensitive preteen girl.)
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amother
Apricot
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Sat, Jul 06 2019, 11:39 pm
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I teach high school and on the first day of school I tell them my classroom rules and what I expect from them. One of the things I say is that I am treating them as adults - don't ask me if you can go to the bathroom - if you have to go just get up and leave (if no one else is out) However, I say I will notice if you go out every day and if you are out for an extended amt of time. I tell them that if this system is abused, I will assume they are not mature enough for me to treat them as adults and they will have to ask permission to go out. In all my years of teaching I had to take away this privilege only once
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amother
Magenta
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Sat, Jul 06 2019, 11:48 pm
My daughter had a teacher in second grade who gave three passes per term. Well my daughter had a bladder issue and became extremely anxious about going to school. I spoke with the teacher and got a note from her doctor. The teacher gave her unlimited passes.
The OD in camp did not allow my daughter to go to the bathroom one night and she wet her bed. She was 13 years old and dead embarrassed. Bh it was the night before visiting day so she just made her bed and when I came I took all the linen and the quilt to relatives bungalow to wash. She just told the girls my mother wants my linen fresh.
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amother
Khaki
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Sat, Jul 06 2019, 11:57 pm
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I'm sorry, I teach second grade and that is ridiculous. No way would 3 passes per term be enough even for a kid without a bladder issue.
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amother
Seashell
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 12:31 am
| amother [ Pink ] wrote: | | But would you become desperate in 5 minutes?! Again this is assuming no medical issues (which the teacher should be informed of if they exist!) |
If within those five minutes I thought I might have started my period and was in public? Yes.
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amother
Khaki
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 12:39 am
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Emergencies do happen even to people without medical issues.
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amother
Puce
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 3:37 am
| amother [ Magenta ] wrote: | My daughter had a teacher in second grade who gave three passes per term. Well my daughter had a bladder issue and became extremely anxious about going to school. I spoke with the teacher and got a note from her doctor. The teacher gave her unlimited passes.
The OD in camp did not allow my daughter to go to the bathroom one night and she wet her bed. She was 13 years old and dead embarrassed. Bh it was the night before visiting day so she just made her bed and when I came I took all the linen and the quilt to relatives bungalow to wash. She just told the girls my mother wants my linen fresh. |
I also had an OD who didn't let use the bathroom. I used to stay awake until she left to use it. Sometimes I couldn't stay awake and fell asleep. It's real cruelty. I was an OD myself quite a bit and always let kids go to the bathroom although I did try to keep it to one girl at a time.
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Ruchel
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 6:35 am
Tragic? Doubt it was caused by the toilet
But yes, I let people go to the toilets unless there's an exageration.
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gingertop
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 6:53 am
It doesn't have to be a major GI problem and parents don't necessarily know before. One of the first symptoms of UTI is urinary urgency and UTIs are really not a joke in terms of pain and potential damage to the kidneys.
I had several very unfortunate situations in elementary school with teachers who were very rigid about the pass system. My mother could only inform teachers once I was diagnosed. I have a lifelong problem of recurrent UTIs and eventually, my mother informed teachers in the beginning of each year that I should be allowed to use the restroom when necessary. I still had occasional incidents with substitute teachers.
Just let a kid go.
Last edited by gingertop on Mon, Jul 08 2019, 2:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nicole81
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 8:17 am
First off, does your school have any specific policy? If so, then your policy needs to align to it. Most high schools I have been in have blanket policies of no bathroom use the first and last ten minutes of a period. This is pretty common in the DOE due to safety concerns, and if a student really does need the restroom in this time, it is unlocked and monitored by admin to make sure a bunch of other students don't pile in around passing time. I know there are some amothers on this thread who think it's horrible to keep the bathroom locked, but it's more horrible to have a fight break out while there are 300 students in a hallway, with the potential for the violence and the crowd to move into an unlocked bathroom where severe injury may occur and school safety cannot enter. This is the reality of many inner city schools.
In terms of in the actual classroom, I'm not a fan of a student raising their hand and asking for permission. I think it's demeaning to them and a complete waste of instructional time.
I taught 9th grade for many years. I had a table at the front of the room with sign in/out book, a pen, and a pass. There were certain times I didn't want the kids to go, barring emergencies, and my policy was on a big poster as follows:
If you need to leave the room, ask yourself the following questions:
1. Is it the first 10 minutes or the last 10 minutes of class?
2. Is the teacher giving direct instruction at the moment? (side note- my mini-lessons were only 5-10 minutes long and my students were many grade levels below in math when they reached my classroom)
3. Is the pass out of the room at the moment?
If the answer to all of these questions is no, then sign out, take the pass, and go.
If the answer to any of them is yes, kindly wait.
The policy didn't exist in isolation, either. I explained my rationale to students, and also explained that if they absolutely cannot wait, which should be a rarity, then they should do what they need to. The kids completely respected my policy and because of the sign-in/out book, I could see if there were any patterns of students missing class too frequently or staying out too long-- which never actually happened in all my years of teaching.
I definitely recommend posting a policy that's visible to all, and that guides the students to grant their own "permission" to leave, because a whole bunch of kids raising their hand asking "can I go to the restroom?" is tiresome and can waste hours of time throughout the year! In my class, if I got that, I just pointed to the wall as I moved on the the next student. The kids caught on real quickly.
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amother
Burgundy
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 9:43 am
In 10th grade one of my teachers didn't let my friend go to the bathroom.
After begging, my friend just got up and walked out.
She never came back to that class or to our school - she switched schools that week.
A few weeks later, she was diagnosed with kidney cancer, which she B"H recovered from after surgery and months of treatments.
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amother
Khaki
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 9:47 am
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Nicole, I don't think there is any worry of a fight breaking out in the bathroom of a frum girl's Jewish day school.
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amother
Ginger
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 9:50 am
All these systems are so demeaning. Even the passes and the signing out.
I'm so glad my school's policy was just quietly let yourself out and come back quietly when you're done.
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teachkids
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 9:58 am
| amother [ Khaki ] wrote: | | Nicole, I don't think there is any worry of a fight breaking out in the bathroom of a frum girl's Jewish day school. |
It might not be a fist fight, but it could easily be hard core bullying. I've seen kids leave the bathroom in tears or resist going to the bathroom during the school day.
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amother
Khaki
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 10:03 am
Then the school has bigger problems to address then whether a kid is going to the bathroom too frequently.
This whole issue is simply a matter of classroom/school management. Have hallway or bathroom monitors. Have a monitor scheduled to do a walk through every so often, etc. Have a nearby teacher be responsible to do a quick bathroom check every so often. But don't penalize a regular student because the school doesn't have control over a few badly behaved ones. It's the school's job to provide a safe and healthy environment for the students.
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amother
Blonde
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 10:07 am
Odd. Excuse me, but I find this thread bizarre. I went to non-Jewish schools in Europe and there was never any restriction on going to the bathroom. Normally we would go during the breaks, that was kind of expected, but if anyone needed in the middle of the lesson, you would raise your hand, tell the teacher and go. No passes or anything. Only during the exams the rule was one at a time, for obvious reasons.
Why would any school or teacher restrict going to the toilet? What did I miss?
Edit - I never heard in my schools of any fights connected to going to the bathroom. We also did not have lots of kids in any one given class going during lessons. One or two at most.
My oldest dc here in Israel is primary school age, there are also no restrictions.
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notshanarishona
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 10:11 am
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I wish there was a easy way to just trust all the students that when they ask to go to the bathroom they really need it. My experiment this year was to institute a concept of a brain break so kids could feel comfortable to say I need to walk around/ a break from class but there were certain times when I did not allow it (I.e. during direct instruction / tests , etc ).and so many times when I would say you can't take a brain break now the kids would then say, actually I need the bathroom. Again, I don't think it's terrible for a kid to need a 1-2 minute break every hour or two but I can't allow 5 kids to have emergencies at the same time and frankly about half the kids are lying to get out of class , it's not just an occasional student. Has it really been so long since all of you were kids that you don't remember ? I used to "need the bathroom" and go run around in the gym . It was just hard for me to sit . There is no one right or wrong answer , obviously kids should be able to go the bathroom , but to believe that it's cruelty to make them wait 5-10 minutes or have certain times where there is no going out is taking it too far . Just like on a road trip , everyone can learn to schedule their body to go to the bathroom during breaks and only have an emergency once in a while, it shouldn't be every day.
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aricelli
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Sun, Jul 07 2019, 10:19 am
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I was a student many years ago but feel like it was just yesterday that I was cutting class in the bathroom along with half my high school friends! There definately should be rules.
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