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Do you actually know someone who was vaccine injured?
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Do you actually know someone who was vaccine injured (not a headache, minor seizure, etc.)?
Yes  
 19%  [ 62 ]
No  
 74%  [ 233 ]
Something Else  
 0%  [ 3 ]
Temporarily, but it was addressed and fixed BH  
 4%  [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 313



southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:45 am
helene wrote:
I made a spelling mistake before. I
am referring to Dr Tom O'Bryan, a top specialist on gluten intolerance and sensitivity.
And yes the military is a big test laboratory for vaccines. Yes many soldiers have permanent damage from vaccines.
Go and read the inserts for vaccines. It will give you the ingredients and the possible side affects.
B"h not everyone suffers side effects. But every single one is one too many. I don't want to sacrifice the health of my child so someone else's should stay well!!


Not sure where your information is coming from about military personnel who are damaged by vaccines. The VA has to treat the "many" damaged personnel so your claim doesn't have hands and feet.
People who are unwilling to vaccinate for the sake of others in society shouldn't complain about being excluded by those who don't want to get sick.
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helene




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:54 am
I have absolutely no interest in scare mongering! I just don't want any child to have to suffer unnecessary long term I'll health due to vaccines. If you would see any such child your heart would go out to them. There is no proper research on long term safety of vaccines. 2 weeks or even 4 week studies are not long enough. And sometimes it's the accumulated effect of a few vaccines that harm the child.
I'm not against vaccines. I just want safe vaccines. Why can't big pharma be sued for any vaccine dammage? Because there would be so much payout it would bankrupt them.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:03 am
helene wrote:
I have absolutely no interest in scare mongering! I just don't want any child to have to suffer unnecessary long term I'll health due to vaccines. If you would see any such child your heart would go out to them. There is no proper research on long term safety of vaccines. 2 weeks or even 4 week studies are not long enough. And sometimes it's the accumulated effect of a few vaccines that harm the child.
I'm not against vaccines. I just want safe vaccines. Why can't big pharma be sued for any vaccine dammage? Because there would be so much payout it would bankrupt them.


Why do so few pharmaceutical companies produce vaccines? Because the one in a million person who dies or is permanently injured adds up to a lot when many millions of doses are given.
The medical world doesn't view the cancer of older adulthood as cumulative vaccine damage because nobody can objectively prove it.
You can say the same thing about kids who are permanently damaged by VPDs; horribly sad and preventable. I volunteer for an elderly polio victim who has suffered for her entire life. Is that preferable?
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helene




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:15 am
My uncle actually got polio from the vaccine. And I'm sure he isn't the only one.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:40 am
helene wrote:
I made a spelling mistake before. I
am referring to Dr Tom O'Bryan, a top specialist on gluten intolerance and sensitivity.
And yes the military is a big test laboratory for vaccines. Yes many soldiers have permanent damage from vaccines.
Go and read the inserts for vaccines. It will give you the ingredients and the possible side affects.
B"h not everyone suffers side effects. But every single one is one too many. I don't want to sacrifice the health of my child so someone else's should stay well!!


Helene Not just one spelling error. But I can deal with the spelling mistakes; it's the factual errors and breakdown in logical argument that are disturbing. In particular as I said before, it is incoherent to subscribe to chiropractic theory, which explicitly denies the scientific method; and to ask for more studies using the scientific method to prove that vaccines are safe and effective. I am forced to conclude that those who ask for more studies are not being honest; they are just using these requests as a smokescreen which they can hide behind as they don't vax their kids.

Latest amother, I have been responding first, because I understand parents being fearful, and want to the extent possible to reassure them with facts; second, because if other people come to this discussion, they should see that senseless posts do not go unchallenged. Realistically, of course, I can only respond to a small part of this foolishness.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:53 am
helene wrote:
My uncle actually got polio from the vaccine. And I'm sure he isn't the only one.


After that happened, the polio vaccine was changed. I don't think that happens any more.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:56 am
helene wrote:
My uncle actually got polio from the vaccine. And I'm sure he isn't the only one.


I am sorry that your uncle got polio; I hope he was able to recover. But this too is well known. The oral vaccine had a risk of transmitting polio. It was stopped in the US for that reason once polio was eradicated here. However, it had a great advantage in that it conferred immunity not only to the person receiving the shot but to the people around him. For that reason, it is credited with doing a great deal to eradicate polio both in the US and in many areas of the world in which it wasn't practical to give every child the vaccine.

The risk of contracting polio from OPV is less than 1 in a million. The risk of getting polio without a vaccine, at the time when polio was widespread, was at least a hundred times higher, doing a back-of-the-envelope calculation. (The number of cases of polio in the 1950s was 60K annually; the population of the US in 1955 was around 165.9 million. The Sabin vaccine came into commercial use in 1961.) So it was still reasonable to give the OPV.
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amother
Tan


 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 1:14 pm
I just heard a horrible trend that is going on by the pro-measles group: They take child A , that has had the measles to an URGENT CARE CENTER to be tested for Titers, but, they tell them that his name is Child B. The URGENT CARE DOCTOR certifies that Child B has had the measles with a good Titers. Walla now Child B is admitted to school and Camp...ready to infect people around him or her!!! Anyone heard of this???
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amother
Black


 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 1:28 pm
This statement is found on every single vaccine insert:

(Insert name of vaccine) has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or for impairment of fertility.



HOW ARE ANY OF YOU OK WITH THIS??? I mean, don't we give the mumps vaccine to prevent infertility from mumps? And there's no way of knowing if the MMR does the same thing!

And all the cancer we see today's days which nobody knows where it comes from? Umm... how about checking into vaccinations and how they affect cancer rates?
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 1:37 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
This statement is found on every single vaccine insert:

(Insert name of vaccine) has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or for impairment of fertility.



HOW ARE ANY OF YOU OK WITH THIS??? I mean, don't we give the mumps vaccine to prevent infertility from mumps? And there's no way of knowing if the MMR does the same thing!

And all the cancer we see today's days which nobody knows where it comes from? Umm... how about checking into vaccinations and how they affect cancer rates?


No reliable way to study or prove that.
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amother
Black


 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 1:51 pm
southernbubby wrote:
No reliable way to study or prove that.

BS
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amother
Denim


 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 2:25 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
This statement is found on every single vaccine insert:

(Insert name of vaccine) has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or for impairment of fertility.



HOW ARE ANY OF YOU OK WITH THIS??? I mean, don't we give the mumps vaccine to prevent infertility from mumps? And there's no way of knowing if the MMR does the same thing!

And all the cancer we see today's days which nobody knows where it comes from? Umm... how about checking into vaccinations and how they affect cancer rates?


There are too many other factors that could cause them that they can’t isolate it to vaccines to prove one way or the other.

There are too many other life style differences between vaxxers and anti vaxxers to isolate the vaccines as causes
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helene




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 2:55 pm
Amother black, thankyou so much. Finally amother who understands the issue at hand. Vaccines are a huge money maker for the big pharmas and they can be so dangerous to our children. Most antivaxxers have been hurt by vaccines and are just trying to make other parents aware of the dangers.
JoyInTheMorning mother you are just burying your head in the sand and trying to avoid the facts. Vaccines are NOT safe.!!
And just because you don't like chiropractors doesn't mean what they say is wrong. A lot of chiropractors actually first studied traditional medicine and are fully qualified MDs and then did additional studies to become chiropractors. But this is not the important part of this conversation.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 3:59 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
BS


I had breast cancer at age 56. How would you go about establishing a cause? There is a lot of breast cancer in developing countries where vaccination rates are low. What would you say is the cause? I would guess genetics in countries where the cancer is triple receptor negative but I didn't have a BRCA mutation. It sounds very simplistic to blame vaccines for that.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 4:10 pm
helene wrote:
Amother black, thankyou so much. Finally amother who understands the issue at hand. Vaccines are a huge money maker for the big pharmas and they can be so dangerous to our children. Most antivaxxers have been hurt by vaccines and are just trying to make other parents aware of the dangers.
JoyInTheMorning mother you are just burying your head in the sand and trying to avoid the facts. Vaccines are NOT safe.!!
And just because you don't like chiropractors doesn't mean what they say is wrong. A lot of chiropractors actually first studied traditional medicine and are fully qualified MDs and then did additional studies to become chiropractors. But this is not the important part of this conversation.


I am not sure that the term "a lot" applies to MDs who became chiropractors. There is a type of physician who is a DO and studied spinal manipulation in medical school. There are also MDs such as Dr Andrew Weil who studied alternative medicine in order to integrate it with Western medicine. Then there are some MDs who are board certified quacks.
No matter how many exclamation marks you put, the average vaccinated person is not suffering the slightest bit from this preventive measure. Most people get their shots and promptly forget about them.
I don't say that chiropractors can't relieve a backache, possibly better than a physician but when I had cancer, I went to an oncologist who did a great job. I wouldn't have gone to chiropractor for that. I hope that most people know better than to do that.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 4:22 pm
helene wrote:
Amother black, thankyou so much. Finally amother who understands the issue at hand. Vaccines are a huge money maker for the big pharmas and they can be so dangerous to our children. Most antivaxxers have been hurt by vaccines and are just trying to make other parents aware of the dangers.
JoyInTheMorning mother you are just burying your head in the sand and trying to avoid the facts. Vaccines are NOT safe.!!
And just because you don't like chiropractors doesn't mean what they say is wrong. A lot of chiropractors actually first studied traditional medicine and are fully qualified MDs and then did additional studies to become chiropractors. But this is not the important part of this conversation.


Helene, you just say bizarre things. A lot of chiropractors are fully qualified MDs, you say? Then why don't they put those initials after their names? I can guarantee you if Dr. Tom O'Bryan had an MD, he wouldn't just write his name as Tom O'Bryan, DC, CCN, DACBN; instead, he'd write his name as Tom O'Bryan, MD, DC, CCN, DACBN.

Please. Find me some examples of chiropractors who also are MDs (not ODs). Once you find some examples, tell me what you think the percentage of chiropractors with MDs is, and how you came to that number.

I don't say this about other "doctor" degrees. I know people who are dentists (DDS or DMD) and have MDs. I know people who have PhDs and have MDs. There's nothing magical about MDs, and there are plenty of people who study for and get multiple degrees. But the philosophy behind a degree in traditional Western medicine is so diametrically opposed to the philosophy behind chiropractic theory, that it would be an unusual step indeed for an MD to drop it all and become a chiropractor.

The main issue, I repeat, with citing a chiropractor as an "expert" on vaccine safety is that chiropractic theory explicitly rejects the scientific method. I cannot believe anything a chiropractor says.

(For the record, although I went to a chiropractor in the past, I did not at that time know that they rejected the scientific method. There are still some modalities of alternative medicine like acupuncture that I have used in the past, and would consider using in the future, because it has been established that they are helpful for certain things, especially for treating pain. But I would never consider an acupuncturist an expert in vaccines either.)
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amother
cornflower


 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 4:23 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
BS


Design the study.
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nchr




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 4:39 pm
These last few posts are filled with such illogical nonsense I dont even know where to begin.

Vaccines save more money than they make.
Cancer has been around thousands of years.
People are living longer than ever before.
1 in a million or three million people have a severe reaction to a vaccine, but many more to the serious diseases they prevent.
Most chiropractors are not MDs.
If you're trying to say that a vaccine has some potential impact 60 years later - what about vitamins?
Vitamins are a multi billion dollar industry.
Although vaccines are by and between safe, we do try to make them safer all the time.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 4:40 pm
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:
Design the study.


Exactly this. Every anti-vax person who asks for more studies should be required to submit the design of a study that would convince them that vaccines are safe. The study must conform to a rigorous experimental framework, as described in David J. Glass, Experimental Design for Biologists.

If they can't do that, they're not serious about asking for studies. It's just a gambit in their delay-deny-refuse anti-vax game. And again, I wouldn't care, except that it endangers their own innocent children, and many others, including the immunocompromised; and is a chillul Hashem.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 04 2019, 4:42 pm
Nchr, do you know of any chiropractors who are MDs? I don't know of any and have never heard or read of any. That doesn't mean none exist, but the combination has to be exceedingly rare.
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