Do you actually know someone who was vaccine injured?

southernbubby

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 4:27 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

I never said vaccines are the only culprit. But given the thousands of parents who say their healthy child became autistic, chronically sick, died etc after vaccination, vaccines are the most likely culprit.

Also, why dies the CDC refuse to do a Vax vs UnVax Study even though congressmen requested one? The Tobacco Industry for decades denied that smoking causes cancer. The Tobacco Industry hired scientists to chant "correlation does not prove causation".
It was a Smoker vs Non-Smoker Study that PROVED that smoking DOES cause cancer.
A Vax vs UnVax Study would prove vaccines cause Autism (and much more). That is why the CDC refuses to do a Vax vs UnVax Study.

Also, the Opiod Crisis was caused by DOCTORS over-prescribing opiods, so why should you trust doctors when it comes to vaccine???

Because vaccines are safe and they usually work. Opioids should be used only for short periods of time or for terminal patients. You probably trust alternative practioners but they make plenty of serious mistakes too. Heroin is not a prescription drug.
Also there was a study like that done in Denmark that proved no link between vaccines and autism.

#BestBubby

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 4:48 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Usually anti-vaxers have a different set of statistics than everyone else and I wonder where that info about the CDC patents and bribes comes from.

CDC owns 50 vaccine patents. many sources. Here is one: https://www.lawfirms.com/resou.....tions

CDC says it is allowed to accept gifts from pharmaceutical industry!
Administration of Gifts (Policy 20170329) - The CDC Foundation, however, is authorized by law to accept donations to “support and carry out activities for the prevention and control of diseases, disorder, injuries, and disabilities, and for promotion of public health.” The CDC Director is authorized by law to accept such funds from the CDC Foundation. https://www.cdc.gov/maso/Polic.....8.pdf

Headline: Can CDC in the US takings millions from pharma industry be unbiased?https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Can-CDC-in-the-US-takings-millions-from-pharma-industry-be-unbiased/articleshow/47356946.cms

A quick google search will show you my sources.

southernbubby

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 4:59 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

The law firm also has a finger in the till. The end of the article is that they are trying to change the law to make it possible to sue pharmaceutical companies and there is no proof for any of their allegations. Probably the freedom to sue vaccine manufacturers would make vaccines less available which would put some populations at risk for diseases.

JoyInTheMorning

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 5:29 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

I’m not anti-vax, but in the middle of trying to form an opinion. I looked up the above mentioned studies:

https://www.oatext.com/Preterm.....n.php

https://www.oatext.com/Pilot-c......php.

Here is a site explaining that the studies were not retracted, as per the claims of pro-can blogs: https://www.acam.org/news/3479......htm.

I’m curious about what you think.

Your links don't work. But anyway, the Mawson "study" was in fact retracted twice. Even if it hadn't been retracted, it's absolute nonsense. It's based on self-reporting from a small group of homeschooling parents, hardly a representative sample of the population. The self-reporting is entirely subjective. This study is a joke compared to the Danish study, which showed no connection between the MMR and autism.

JoyInTheMorning

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 5:40 pm

I don't know whether or not the CDC owns patents. I don't know how the research scientists who develop the patents profit from the patents and how much the CDC gets. I know that I have been awarded several patents (not in biology), but I have received virtually nothing for them; I think a small award of $1K for my first patent and half of that for each subsequent patent. The patent belongs to the company which employed me at the time I wrote the patent. Universities, and probably hospitals, work differently and inventors do get to own and profit from patents.

I think it's fine for researchers to profit from their patents. (I sure wish I was profiting from my patents and could afford to hire a cleaning lady and an organizer.) I do agree that conflicts of interest should be disclosed. While it's fine for the original inventors to do initial safety studies, it's probably best for others who don't profit to do subsequent safety studies. But I think that this has been established practice. For example, the Danish study that shows no connection between MMR and autism was not done by the people who invented the MMR.

At the same time, full disclosure cuts both ways. If someone has a grievance because they think a family member has been damaged by a vaccine, or got a poor grade from one of the inventors of a vaccine and now wants to get back at the inventor, or whatever other axe they have to grind, that should be disclosed also. And by the way, it would be good to have that practiced on imamother too. I'd love to know what axe all these anti-vax imamothers have to grind.

amother

Indigo

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 5:44 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

After Pharmaceutical Companies got immunity from Liability in 1986, the CDC QUADRUPLED the Vaccine Schedule and the number of children with chronic illnesses has skyrocketed:

1:5 teens had episode of mental illness
1:6 children are learning disabled
1:6 children are allergic (can be FATAL)
1:8 children have IBS
1:10 children have ADHD
1:13 children have asthma (can be FATAL)
1:50 children have AUTISM and keeps increasing
1:100 children have Epilepsy /Seizure Disorder
1:250 children have Tourettes Syndrome
1:400 children have Diabetes
1:775 babies die of SIDS
1:1,000 children have Celiac Disease
1:5,560 children have CANCER

ZERO deaths from Measles, Mumps or Chickenpox (in USA).
432 deaths reported to VAERS in 2016

Is a change in vaccine schedule the ONLY difference from 1986 to today? Of course not!

Technology use and screen time has increased greatly. More babies are surviving premature births. Opioid use has increased. Plus there has been greater awareness and thus diagnosis of many issues.

Antivaxxers use statistics like this to say it must be vaccines causing this. But this is an assumption, and I’m not risking exposing my babies to dangerous diseases because of assumptions.

And of course there were no deaths from the measles or mumps - people were vaccinated!

amother

Smokey

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 5:46 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

Thank you, here is the last link and the studies are on the page.
https://www.acam.org/news/3479.....s.htm

amother

Smokey

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 6:10 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

I'd love to know what axe all these anti-vax imamothers have to grind.

Well, like I said above, I’m not anti-vax, but happy to share with you where I’m coming from. I’m very much trying to work out what the facts are amidst the propaganda and assumptions on both sides.

My baby was diagnosed with pneumonia and bronchiolitis the day after her last set of vaccines. She also has Down syndrome, and the research into the safety of vaccines on children with Down syndrome is non-existent, and they are excluded from the regular studies.

There is research, however, that vaccines are less effective on them and provide little immunity. Children with Down syndrome have reduced immune systems in general, and get sick more often than typical children. This suggests to me that they are more at risk for health problems following vaccines as our own story seems to back up. To me it seems they should fall into the category of immune compromised and be contraindicated for vaccines.

But our paediatrician and all the main Down syndrome websites promote vaccinating these children because they need it more based on their weak immune system. Even though the vaccines are largely ineffective for them.

So I’m confused, trying to work out the best thing to do for my child. Wanting to listen to her doctor and the accepted advice but it makes no sense to me, and goes against the experience we have already had. My daughter has already been hospitalised following vaccines and her doctor agreed her virus developed because her immune system was weakened by the vaccines.

#BestBubby

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 6:30 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

I don't know whether or not the CDC owns patents. I don't know how the research scientists who develop the patents profit from the patents and how much the CDC gets.... I do agree that conflicts of interest should be disclosed. While it's fine for the original inventors to do initial safety studies, it's probably best for others who don't profit to do subsequent safety studies. But I think that this has been established practice. For example, the Danish study that shows no connection between MMR and autism was not done by the people who invented the MMR.

At the same time, full disclosure cuts both ways. If someone has a grievance because they think a family member has been damaged by a vaccine, or got a poor grade from one of the inventors of a vaccine and now wants to get back at the inventor, or whatever other axe they have to grind, that should be disclosed also. And by the way, it would be good to have that practiced on imamother too. I'd love to know what axe all these anti-vax imamothers have to grind.

JoyInTheMorning, all vaccine safety studies have conflicts in interests. The studies are either paid for by the CDC (which owns Vaccine Patents and accepts Millions $$$ in "gifts" from Pharmaceutical Company) or by scientists who have financial ties to the pharmaceutical company. Often, these conflicts of interests are NOT disclosed in the study which is fraud.

Here is the conflict of interest/financial ties of the scientists in the study you cite as showing no link between MMR and Autism

Excerpt from: A Scientist’s Rebuttal to the Danish Cohort Study https://www.focusforhealth.org.....tudy/

8. Conflict of interest of the study authors

It should be noted that three of the study authors are currently employed at the Statens Serum Institut which is a for-profit vaccine manufacturer in Denmark. In addition, this work was funded by a grant from the Novo Nordisk foundation. Novo Nordisk is a Danish multinational pharmaceutical manufacturer. These are two serious conflicts of interest.

The lead author, Anders Hviid was the second author on the New England Journal of Medicine MMR autism paper from 2002 (Madsen et al. 2002). This research was completed despite the fact that the study authors had never received proper ethics approval to complete the study. A detailed analysis of this is featured by Children’s Health Defense.

As for "conflict of interest" of the anti-vaxxers - many do say that their child or a relative/friend's child was injured by a vaccine and they want to warn other mothers to save them from the same thing. You have a problem with that???

amother

Papaya

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 6:54 pm

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

I haven’t read every post but I want to chime in. I hope no one takes this the wrong way. I’m anon because I’m posting personal things.
BestBubby - I’m sorry about your nephew. Truly. And the stats you gave are definitely meant to shock.
If I may, I’d like to ask the question in a different way.
One of my children had many many ear infections and other health issues. The child was put on so much medicine that the teeth were deformed. BH the adult teeth are fine, but for a few years it wasn’t pleasant to look at my child. Should I sue the doctor? Pharmacist? Medicine company? No I shouldn’t. Better to have a child that’s alive and hearing than the alternative. (Child also has other health issues. Only focusing in the ones mentioned.) Correlation is not cAusation.
The stats about how many kids were diagnosed with other things- have you looked at medical journals and seen how different things were classified years ago and today? Or how treatments have changed and more people are surviving? Or how diagnoses have gotten better and better? Diabetes used to be a death sentence. Now it isn’t. It’s like how the states with the highest cancer rates happen to have the best hospitals. Why? Because people go there to get treated. I can warp any study for my benefit …
At the end of the day, vaccines save lives. Want read an article about autism rates? Look up acetaminophen and autism. Cuba has a higher vaccination rate and uses the same vaccines as the USA but has almost no cases of autism. Know why? Because in Cuba Tylenol is a prescribed drug and parents are told not to use it. There are studies showing that Tylenol might be the culprit for autism, not vaccines.

I just googled this, I can't believe what I read. If this is true, this should really be publicized! The ramifications are chilling!

#BestBubby

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 7:03 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

For example, the Danish study that shows no connection between MMR and autism was not done by the people who invented the MMR.

There are several scientists who expose why the Danish study is not valid. Here are a few
links:

A Scientist’s Rebuttal to the Danish Cohort Study
https://www.focusforhealth.org.....tudy/

A Review of Hviid et al.'s 2019 MMR-Autism Study - Physicians for ..
https://physiciansforinformedc.....tudy/

An Autopsy on Hviid et al. 2019's MMR/Vaccine Science-Like Activities ...
https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2.....ties/

Here are some points from these scientists why the Danish study is INVALID:

1. It is NOT a Vax vs UnVax Study. It is a study of kids who got vaccine + MMR vs kids who got Vaccines, No MMR. It is 34 Vaccines vs 32 Vaccines (no MMR).

If I made a study of 34 pack a day smokers vs 32 pack a day smokers and the cancer rate was about the same, does that prove that smoking doesn't cause cancer???

NO! I would have do study Smoker vs Non-Smoker. But CDC refuses to do a Vax vs UnVax Study. JoyInTheMorning, Please tell me why CDC refuses to do Vax vs UnVax Study.

2. The Danish Study is Invalid because of "Healthy User Bias". It was NOT randomized who got the MMR and who did not - the Parents decided. If a child got some vaccines and then developed signs of Autism, the Parents would decide not to give MMR. But the Autism could have been caused by the 32 other vaccines (Dtap, HIB, Hep B etc).

The only way to test if MMR causes Autism is to study MMR Vaxxed vs ZERO vaccines.

3. As previously noted, the Scientists doing this study HAVE financial ties/conflicts of interest with the Vaccine Industry.

southernbubby

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 7:05 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

I don't have a problem with someone warning people if they have a problem with vaccines. I have a problem when vaccine researchers and advocates get death threats and when anti-vaxers troll Facebook to harass mothers who urge people to get flu shots because their child died of the flu. I have a problem with distortion of data. I also have a problem with a group whose agenda is so corrupt that if someone wants to go ahead and vaccinate, the health department workers need to sneak into the house because they fear reprisals from their fellow anti-vaxers.
Busy bubby, I hope none of your precious grandchildren are ever bitten by a animal and need rabies vaccines or snake anti-venom because I am not sure you trust those things.

amother

Denim

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 7:57 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

In this case you should want the population to be kept vaccinated, just with exceptions made for medically fragile children. If vaccinations become optional, your child with the weakened immune system is in the most danger.