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amother




OP


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 12:42 pm
I was looking around outside today at some of the women in my neighborhood. I have to say I really admire the ones who look so beautiful and put together while they make sure to be completely tzniyusdig and covered up, long enough skirts and sleeves, even with socks/ pantyhose. Then I feel so bad when I see women who aren’t covered up b’tzniyus properly in the name of “fashion-looking good” it hurts me they’re more concerned about this then tzniyus. The truth is you really can look good and be b’tzniyus too. I admire u, righteous women!
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amother




Sapphire


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 12:43 pm
What a nice and positive perspective!
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amother




Violet


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 12:56 pm
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
What a nice and positive perspective!


What's so "positive" about judging and attempting to shame other women based solely upon their appearance?

Not every rabbi agrees that you need to wear tights or socks. I follow my rabbi and don't wear them ... at least not in the summer. And I don't need sanctimonious busy bodies looking down their noses at me for it.
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amother




Orange


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 1:00 pm
When I notice a woman checking me out or my husband points it out to me (not that often-I’m not that fashionable) I wonder if she’s thinking positively or negatively-like you said “ tznius but fashionable” or judging me for having lower tznius standards than them.
I hope it’s the former and not the latter.
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amother




Scarlet


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 1:29 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I was looking around outside today at some of the women in my neighborhood. I have to say I really admire the ones who look so beautiful and put together while they make sure to be completely tzniyusdig and covered up, long enough skirts and sleeves, even with socks/ pantyhose. Then I feel so bad when I see women who aren’t covered up b’tzniyus properly in the name of “fashion-looking good” it hurts me they’re more concerned about this then tzniyus. The truth is you really can look good and be b’tzniyus too. I admire u, righteous women!


I really want to like this post, because I like the overall message of looking good while dressing tzniyusdik. Its somethingi m actually passionate about

But im upset, because according to your post, you'd look at me, with my elbows and knees covered, and my shirt not snug, but you'd classify me as one of those women who, in your words, "arent covered up btzniyus properly" because my legs arent wearing stockings.

My right wing Rav told me its not halacha. I live in monsey. Plenty of women dress the same, and guess what, they're Rabannim also dont hold its halacha.

I cant tell you how much it hurts to know that some women look at me and think im not dressed l'halacha. When I actually discuss everything with my Rav. Wonder if they do.
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amother




Oak


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 1:35 pm
Either way, you're judging the women. Either for how "beautiful" they look or for how "tznius", what if a woman does not look beautiful but *is* tznius? How would she fare in your view....
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amother




Puce


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 1:39 pm
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

I cant tell you how much it hurts to know that some women look at me and think im not dressed l'halacha. When I actually discuss everything with my Rav. Wonder if they do.


I blame schools. Many women don't ever think to ask their rabbi cause they were taught it as halacha and don't question it.
I wonder if some RW rabbis would, in fact, say it's halacha for their communities to wear them (chassidishe/very yeshivishe)
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amother




Puce


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 1:42 pm
FWIW, I don't think the OP considers those with legs uncovered untznius, from her wording
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amother




Scarlet


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 1:45 pm
amother [ Puce ] wrote:
FWIW, I don't think the OP considers those with legs uncovered untznius, from her wording


If thats the case I take my words back.

I dont want to fight. I hate machlokes. I have nothing against OP personally.

But if there are people looking at non-stovking legs, and thinking theyre not tzniyus, if like them to hear what I said.

Without fighting and insulting.
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 1:46 pm
Y'all, not everything needs to be argued over.

Take the baby, throw away the bath water.

I appreciate OP's post!
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amother




Blonde


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 1:47 pm
Crazy that every thread on here becomes a whole argument
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amother




Honeydew


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 1:49 pm
Thank you! It's really difficult in this heat Very Happy
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amother




Scarlet


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 1:52 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
Crazy that every thread on here becomes a whole argument


I was pretty clear that I dont want to argue.
I hate fighting.
But I also feel that I have the right to share if something isnt so right.
Just to point it out, maybe make some people aware.

How bad is it to bring up some awareness, that uncovered legs might equal totally tzanuah and applause worthy?
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amother




Mistyrose


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 1:56 pm
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
I was pretty clear that I dont want to argue.
I hate fighting.
But I also feel that I have the right to share if something isnt so right.
Just to point it out, maybe make some people aware.

How bad is it to bring up some awareness, that uncovered legs might equal totally tzanuah and applause worthy?


What is applause worthy. Just because it’s fine and kosher.

There is nothing wrong with being impressed who go above you and it doesn’t mean that others are being put down. Or even that you do it.

I’m impressed with those that cut their sheitel shorter. Does that mean I think those in a long sheitel are wrong or not tzanua? No. Mine is longer. I’m impressed with those who have the strength to do what the believe is right above the trends. (Same with double covering, etc.,,)

Maybe op doesn’t wear tights and is impressed with those that follow their rav. You are really reaching to argue. (Even if you say you aren’t - no one said anything against no socks except for you)
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amother




Amethyst


Post  Thu, Jul 11 2019, 1:56 pm
In defense of OP, she is talking about HER community. We dont know where she lives or what the standards there are. If in your community wearing socks is not necessary based on your rabbanim, then it's not about you. It seems like in her community it IS expected and that's why she feels saddened when seeing women not wearing them.

It's interesting that as soon as the discussion is about tznius suddenly eveyeone pounces and screams "don't judge". We ALL judge. You never walked by a nice house and said "nice house" or walked by a store window and said "nice dress"? There. You just judged.
Feeling sad that someone is not living up to a certain standard that is expected in a certain community is not JUDGING in the sense of, this person is BAD because they don't do a b or c. If it's one of your values and you see people not living up to it, it can be upsetting. And it should be upsetting. If you're not upset when your values are broken, how strongly do you really believe in your values?
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