I disagree with the content of what my sons teacher teaches

micki

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 1:53 pm

I am having a disagrrement with my 4-5 year old sons teacher. In her newslettetr she sent home she writes:
We talked about how people used to pass away without a warning and Yaakov davened to Hashem that he should get sick before he passes away so that he will have time to give brachos to his children.

this is exactly what she wrote.
does anyone here profesional or not have problem with this?

The disussion that followed in our house went as follows, Mommy, sister is sick now, does this mean she will pass away?

and it was a long discussion of a subject I was not ready to introduce to the kids.
I spoke to the teacher and told her what happened and she said she is not responsible for what happens at home. she can only control what happens in the class and whatever follows at home is not her problem.

what are your thoughts?

Lechatchila Ariber

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 2:04 pm

I'm not sure what my thoughts are on that actual subject it but in response to what she said....

Quote:

I spoke to the teacher and told her what happened and she said she is not responsible for what happens at home. she can only control what happens in the class and whatever follows at home is not her problem.

I can only say ...huh?

tzatza

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 2:08 pm

About the actual subject: DS was 5 years old when my mother passed away. She was very sick before that and he saw her a few times during this period, and he remembers her being healthy and playing with him. Anyhow, even though it was earlir than I wanted to bring up the subject, I did sit down with him and answered questions about his Bubby passing away. and he also learned in school about Yakov story, but I never hear from him abour tying together someone being sick in the family with the impending death. THen again, maybe it is just him.

chaimsmom

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 2:12 pm

I know this is not what you're looking for, but I have two problems with what the teacher wrote. 1) It's a run on sentence. Don't schools teach writing anymore. 2) It's not true - Alhtough he did not know the exact day, Yitzchok knew his death was imminent and blessed his sons.

I agree with you that it is not appropriate to be teaching the relationship between illness and death to children. Anyone who has ever had to explain death to a child knows you have to be VERY careful that the kid doesn't end up thinking s/he is going to die the next time s/he gets a cold.

Lechatchila Ariber

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 2:15 pm

micki it probably is your job to teach them the difference between sick and sick.

I mainly have an issue with the teacher thinking she is not responsible for the reactions of the children at home.

She is not responsible for how you handle it but she is reponsible for how she gives things over. If she teaches it in a scary way without explaining it right then she has to take responsibility for that. (I'm not saying she did or she didn't)

amother

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 3:05 pm

I agree with you micki, in theory. We dont teach parshas noach in its entirety to 4-5 year olds do we? Theres plenty in each parsha that a teacher can pick and choose what content they will cover and which midrashim they will tell over. I dont know how it was said or if the teacher felt put on the defensive but touchy topics that many dont feel like going into with little children should be something for the teacher to at least think about and consider. Parsha should not be a source of hypocondria for small children. I'm sure you werent the only parent in the class who has that opinion, (that is if the other children paid any attention during class, parents that always read the newsletter, or kids that give over the finer points of what happened in school today). Maybe another parent can suggest it be reconsidered for next year. But its spilt milk already. There are many things that come up that parents have to do that with once kids are in school unless you luck out and get the perfect teachers year after year.

micki

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 7:49 pm

yes, thanks.
Yes I have a problem with her grammar and her run on sentences. But since that is the LEAST of the problems, I don't even mention that!

I guess different paretns will have differnt opinions on the subject matter- personally I would sheild my kids from negatives as long as I can, but I guess others don't care.
I had a really hard time with this teachers disrespect to me and the way sahe was screaming at me.
this is the same teacher who taught my 4 yr old son about a bris mila. she told him, " They cut off a small piece of skin, and it bleeds and the baby cries but then they don't remember."
my son came home and demanded to know what part of him was missing. And all this at a shabbos table with non frum people there. I was ready to sink into the ground.
then by his brothers bris he was hysterical telling me that we cannot hurt his brother and then can I watch?

it was horrible.

gryp

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 7:53 pm

Quote:

We talked about how people used to pass away without a warning and Yaakov davened to Hashem that he should get sick before he passes away so that he will have time to give brachos to his children.

Maybe I should go back to kindergarten. I don't remember learning that Yaakov wanted to get sick in order to bench the Shvatim. Just that they should get sick so people have some kind of warning, because they used to pass away through sneezing.

gryp

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 7:56 pm

Quote:

this is the same teacher who taught my 4 yr old son about a bris mila. she told him, " They cut off a small piece of skin, and it bleeds and the baby cries but then they don't remember."
my son came home and demanded to know what part of him was missing. And all this at a shabbos table with non frum people there. I was ready to sink into the ground.
then by his brothers bris he was hysterical telling me that we cannot hurt his brother and then can I watch?

Shocking!

The only thing I tell kids is that at a bris milah the baby gets a name.

Quote:

she said she is not responsible for what happens at home. she can only control what happens in the class and whatever follows at home is not her problem.

This is not about her being in control. It's about her traumatizing kids.

Can you speak to other parents, micki? I'm sure you're not the only one with this problem.

micki

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 8:03 pm

no, unfortunatly this is the only class.
she is young, 23 ys old and her oldest is 2. she has no intelligence. zero.
she tells me I like this son so much more than I like your older one! (who she had last year)
speaking of sneezing, last year she taught the kids that people passed away suddenly aftre sneexzing so now we say gezundeheit because B"H it doesn't happen any more.
my kid read the forst part of the sentance and was hystreical and told me no one is allowed to sneeze ever again!
there is SO much that can be taught, WHY does she have to pick these topics!!!!!!!!

NotInNJMommy

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 8:18 pm

I don't know whether it is age appropriate or not, but I've also learned the same things, re: sneezing and Yaakov avinu getting sick before passing away so that he could give brachos, in shiurim given by rabbis I very much trust and respect in their teaching actual torah and not "weird stories"....

Also, yitzchak based his knowledge of his impending death on the fact that he was nearing the age at which his father passed away, and there is an inyan that people would often not live longer than their parents. I thought I saw both of these ideas in pirushim from Rashi on the Chumash.

So, her ideas aren't crazy, but true, how much does one need to teach 4 yr olds about bris milah and death? Good food for thought.

Hands down, it's not appropriate to criticize the teacher in front of the students. There are ways to correct the child's misconception and address the teacher without ruining the child's respect for her. How is she supposed to teach anyone when the mommies and tatties are teaching her students to make fun of what she says? For that matter, why should children respect teachers at all, when they see mommy and tatty make fun? One might as well find a new teacher or school if you are going to take away her respect and authority in front of her students. I'm not saying she is right, but there is a bigger matter of chinuch that could be sacrificed if she's not addressed in the appropriate way, which might be through her superior if you think she isn't handling things as you'd like.

batya_d

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 8:23 pm

micki wrote:

That is awful! This woman should not be teaching 4 year olds... she doesn't seem to be able to relate to the way smaller children process information.

Mommy3.5

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 8:59 pm

OK, my son came home with the same thing, but he is almost 7, and in a place where he can process such information.

I have told my boys what a brit is, they have younger brothers, they have been to a brit, I see nothing wrong with being honest with a 4,5,6 year old. I told my son, that Hashem makes an extra piece on boys, and he gives us the mitzvah, to finish making the boy by taking it off. I also told them, that they should not feel bad for the baby because he is doing his first mitzvah. Even though he will cry a little bit, after mommy feeds him he will feel better.

I think its a parents job to give out certain information. I also don't like how she is presenting things to 4 year olds. It sounds like she is going to scar the lot of them for life. If it was my child, I would have a chat with the principal.

And why do they have such a young teacher for small children?!?! The younger the child, the more experience the teacher needs!

Tefila

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 10:41 pm

Quote:

We talked about how people used to pass away without a warning and Yaakov davened to Hashem that he should get sick before he passes away so that he will have time to give brachos to his children

.
You know Micki I have been teaching for 16 years and am still learning new techniques myself but I so agree the way she taught and stressed it was wrong for this age group!!!!!!!!!!!
Children can become terrified about what happend in the parsha can happen to them. I am still quite annoyed at my daughters pre k, teacher who went on and on about Aisav so much so, not just my child but others too are scared to be by themselves becoz of bad Aisav Sad

and if one of my kids raises their voice gauranteed not nice, but don't tell them that only Eisav speaks that way Yaakov is pleasent.
Children are literal and innocent and yes have way more Bittul then adults, but don't frighten them. I mean cmon abit of common sense here Confused

downsyndrome

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 10:57 pm

Micki, I am sorry for disappointing you, but I am much more shocked by the bris mila 'explanation' than by the 'death' explanation. Perhaps because my young children have witnessed both their grandparents die of terrible illness and we discussed the differences and severity of illness, that I am not so mortified by the teacher's comments re: Yaakov b/4 his death.
I don't think you should hesitate to sit down with your kids and explain to them the levels of illness that exist in the world and that people don't die of the sniffles or an upset stomach.

Unfortunately, today we hear such horribly numbing tragedies that when my sister in law was pregnant and was feeling very sick and spending a lot of time in bed we begged her to tell her children what the nature of her illness was, even though she didn't want to yet. We knew that her kids had been exposed to death of classmate's parents l'o and they were traumatized that their mom was going to be next ch'v!!!

...and just for laughs - my son brought home a book from his school library titled "Dinosaurs". On the third page of the book it said, "Millions of years ago dinosaurs ruled the world". I wrote a very respectful note to the teacher suggesting that they have a responsible adult read the books before the students do because this particular book has outright apikorsus!!

mumoo

Wed, Dec 26 2007, 11:17 pm

I am in no way disputing what micki says, but I would ask if the parent knows exactly what was said with respect for those two topics. (the part about not being responsible for what happens at home I have no answer for shock

)

Sometimes the young child 'hears' something slightly different than what is said; he puts together what he knows with what he thinks was said using his young intelligence and world experience. Of course a teacher has to be very selective and careful when she teaches.

Funny related story: a boy comes home and tells his mother that the Rebbe pushed him. The mother was furious and called the Rebbe right away. She asked him if he pushed the boy and he answered, I certainly did. I pushed Dovy and Shmuel. They were having such fun on the swings today.