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Where a Yeshivish family should move from Israel to USA?
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amother




Wheat
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 12:40 pm
It sounds like you are doing well in Israel. Why not move to a more open minded community there? Adjusting to America might be hard for your kids.
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Pollyanna




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 12:59 pm
Some words in your post were hurtful, although I'm sure you don't mean it. These were the first things that crossed my mind about each point you made:

- Although there definitely is something about the chutzpadik culture you mentioned, my experience has shown me that if you look for it, you are bound to see it much more. I grew up in Israel most my life and married someone who did too. Chinuch starts at home, believe me, American children are not perfect either.
- I wouldn't call it looking down at those who have a nice car, ect. Perhaps jealous is more of a word? Again, how bad can it be to make you leave the land? I don't feel any of this. Maybe it's the same as the above, if you look you see it.
- I went to an ultra Chareidi highschool and although the emphasis was diffidently more about a Bayit Shel Torah, (which is a good thing because if wouldn't have learned how special that is we wouldn't strive for that) and my DH ended up leaving Kollel after a year. Guess what? I survived to tell the tale. He is respected and loved my our community and family. He is not alone, there are others, and I'm happy to have a satisfied DH who is happy with his job and daf yomi.
- As regards to the cheider (Talmud Torah in Israel), the lack of secular subjects has nothing to do with living here. There are plenty of places that teach both. I personally, love that Torah is what they learn most of the day. If you go back a 180 years, that's what all the little boys in Poland and other places did, and it makes me tear up when my 6 year old announces a spontaneous Siyum on a mishna. My brothers, BILS, cousins and friends all turned out real fine, so did my DH who runs a big business. I take it what makes you want to live in the US is that there, secular subjects are more common so I'll make you feel better.

Whatever you decide, may you have alot of success. It's just that for so many generations jews would almost sacrifice their lives to live in Israel. The Chofetz Chaim never made it here, Moshe Rabbinu wasn't Zocheh. I know that it's easier to live in chutz laaretz, and yes, there is such a thing as leaving for good reasons such as parnassa, ect. But to see another family leaving the holy land will always be painful.
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teachkids




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 1:02 pm
Look into chofetz Chaim communities. The biggest is of course Queens, but they're all over.
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amother




Mustard
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 1:21 pm
I'm not so sure Passaic would be good fit. While there are some yeshivish people in Passaic overall it's a working professionals crowd. The kollel community is a minority.
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amother




Apricot
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 1:39 pm
amother [ Wheat ] wrote:
It sounds like you are doing well in Israel. Why not move to a more open minded community there? Adjusting to America might be hard for your kids.

I agree 100%. If you and your family are doing well in E"Y I can't imagine any Rav telling you that moving to America will be better for your children.
You sound like you're maybe not in the best fit neighborhood but there are plenty of neighborhoods where shtark Chareidi families have nice houses and cars and the boys learn in kollel after they get married. There are hundreds of schools all over the country that are "yeshivish" and also have varying levels of secular studies. You want bagruyot? So go find a yeshiva that provides them.
Or give your kids private tutoring.
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amother




Lawngreen
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 1:45 pm
I like in lakewood, I see you mentioned jackson which as chayelle pointed out means lkwd schools, stores, politics etc. I personally cant see you being happy here but maybe its just because im not so thrilled and looking to get out of the rat race ...
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strawberry cola




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 2:19 pm
I think that the judgment coming through regarding whether op should be moving to America is really out of place and unfair. This is a decision for she and her husband, with the guidance of their Rav, to make, and it's inappropriate for anyone to weigh in with their opinions. She posted asking for ideas of communities that would be good for her family. Let's keep our answers in that direction, please.
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Smile1978




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 2:31 pm
what about Ramat Bet Shemesh? I think it fits the profile perfectly. Laugh
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Iymnok




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 2:58 pm
There are other Israeli communities that fit your bill...
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 2:58 pm
strawberry cola wrote:
I think that the judgment coming through regarding whether op should be moving to America is really out of place and unfair. This is a decision for she and her husband, with the guidance of their Rav, to make, and it's inappropriate for anyone to weigh in with their opinions. She posted asking for ideas of communities that would be good for her family. Let's keep our answers in that direction, please.


Thank you so much for your sensitivity, but it's totally fine. We are not 100% sure ourselves that moving from E"Y is the right thing for us. We are in an exploratory phase at this point. Since we only know the USA from an MO perspective, and were never part of the Yeshivish world, it's very hard for us to know exactly if moving to the USA would solve the issues and how different it would be from the hard-core Israeli charedi society we are in now.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 3:05 pm
amother [ Apricot ] wrote:
I agree 100%. If you and your family are doing well in E"Y I can't imagine any Rav telling you that moving to America will be better for your children.
You sound like you're maybe not in the best fit neighborhood but there are plenty of neighborhoods where shtark Chareidi families have nice houses and cars and the boys learn in kollel after they get married. There are hundreds of schools all over the country that are "yeshivish" and also have varying levels of secular studies. You want bagruyot? So go find a yeshiva that provides them.
Or give your kids private tutoring.


Besides some parts of Yerushalayim and RBS there's not many choices for people who want to live with a significant percentage of Anglos. So we don't have "hundreds of schools" to choose from. Also, the problem with sending to schools with "bagruyot" is that they are considered totally non-mainstream and come along with other issues. That's why I said at the outset, that living like total Americans in Israel is not for us and not what our mentors recommend is wise.

We do private tutoring in English and Math, but it's not nearly the same as even the most RW yeshivish schools in America and as the kids get older it becomes even harder to find the time and the will (for the boys). This is what we've seen and heard, so happy to be corrected.
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amother




Lavender
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 3:39 pm
Quote:

Look into chofetz Chaim communities. The biggest is of course Queens, but they're all over.

I am a chofetz chaim family and definitely doesn't sound like what they're looking for.

I don't know the cities personally but from friends I have I think Detroit or Cleveland are worth looking into
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amother




Burlywood
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 3:45 pm
What about California?
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amother




Bronze
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 7:26 pm
Come to Chicago!
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 8:58 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Parnassa is hopefully OK either way.

Can you explain why Lakewood area schools wouldn't be a good fit (besides for the OOT feel)?


By your parenthetical comment, were you saying that Lakewood is OOT-like? Because if it is, you have seriously no clue about communities in the USA. Lakewood is IN TOWN. It has every possible Jewish food, furniture, clothing, nosh etc. store and it's a complete rat race. Your daughter won't be caught dead wearing last year's headband style, so you fork over $18 for 1 (one) new one that has this year's exact design.

I feel like people are kind of beating around the bush. The boys' schools are atrocious. They hardly learn secular studies altogether, they are wild animals, the schools have their policies that may benefit the group, but def don't care about the individual. You must fit in exactly or you are "weird" or better, not "normal." Girls' schools don't exactly celebrate diversity and creativity either. Lakewood basically doesn't tick off ANY item on your checklist.
Possibly Baltimore. Passaic is pretty yuppie, not really the growing in torah type as a community as a whole, although I'm sure as Passaicers as individuals are perfectly lovely.
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amother




Blonde
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 9:38 pm
Hmmm... if you have teenagers it’s very risky to move at this point in their lives.
Yes, there are out of town communities in the USA this might work for your family... of course it’s hard to know for sure.
I feel that if your kids are used to an Israeli lifestyle, it might be hard for them here.
I think it makes it easier to move if you have family or friends waiting for you and you will join their community... so hard all on your own.
It sounds safer to stay and move to a new neighborhood in Israel. So hard to know for sure.., makes a lot of sense to make an appointment with a rav who can advise you.
( I was in givat zev a few months ago... don’t know if you would like it there but I saw some beautiful apartments with American furniture and appliances.. also saw in Ramat Beit Schemesh dalet)

Wishing you best of luck as you decide what would be best for your family
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MonseyMommy3




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 9:59 pm
I live in Chestnut Ridge (bordering Monsey) and really like it, I dont use this forum often so you can message me and Im happy to tell you about it, but I hope I see your message =)!

Also this is very ltoeles for you, bc you want to move, but im not sure you need to share problems with israeli society in a public forum - said with love - just maybe should be careful/ask before spreading...
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amother




Aubergine
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 10:29 pm
Baltimore! It's out of town, it's a big mix. A bunch of families moved from e"y to Baltimore recently. not into gashmius, good secular studies, Ner yisroel encourages college and getting decrees, no problem getting into schools, don't need latest styles etc etc
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 11:16 pm
I think the American style communities of RBS would work.
If you must leave E”Y, I do not think you should consider Lakewood or most of the Chofetz Chaim communities.
I don’t agree with some of the above posts about Passaic. I think you would find an element that you will be happy with and there are many people that live there that grew up Modern Orthodox and now are much more
yeshivish. I think you will find very few people like you in Cleveland. Baltimore is another good option. You need to keep in mind that in America in general, you will have more of a hashkafic range of people in a particular school or shul. Personally, I think it’s a good thing, but probably something you aren’t used to.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post  Tue, Jul 16 2019, 11:20 pm
strawberry cola wrote:
I think that the judgment coming through regarding whether op should be moving to America is really out of place and unfair. This is a decision for she and her husband, with the guidance of their Rav, to make, and it's inappropriate for anyone to weigh in with their opinions. She posted asking for ideas of communities that would be good for her family. Let's keep our answers in that direction, please.


I couldn’t agree more. Also unfair are the comments about lashon hara. She is asking questions and painting a picture of what she needs l’toeles. We won’t be able to help her without specifics.
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