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So what do you think of the Noam party?
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:14 am
gingertop wrote:
I don't think Etky means to say that she's ok with that. Only that it is becoming more inevitable as every right wing party seems to think that the more obnoxious they are, and the more they splinter, the more votes they'll get. I'm sick of the lot of them.


Thank you. Totally.
But since it was asked, I thnk that the idea of Prime Minister Yair Lapid is, well... laughable, actually, but I don't think it will ever happen cause Gantz goes first and in the unlikely event that Kachol Lavan wins big and can actually put together a government without Likud then I don't think it will last until Lapid's turn comes.
But, you never know.....
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byisrael




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:25 am
I feel like (the way things are currently looking) that either hakodosh baruch hu wants to surprise us with a mircle

Or (I know this is morbid) he is going to show us that just like in the time of the churban the infighting and sinas chinam caused the Churban (the biryonim burning the food, sikarikim killing those who wouldn't fight....)
Because of our infighting and an inability to unite (could you imagine the power if all the right wing parties including Likud would unite) we will end up with Yair Lapid as Prime Minister - lets just hope that it doesn't end up in financail collapse (remember when he was finance minister) another intafada, and another Gush Katif....

I am staunchly charedi but also staunchly right wing - I am genuinly worried about lapid being PM. I will probably vote Likud holding my nose because of Netanyahu or Gimmel holding my nose because of Litzman....
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:38 am
I agree with you BYIsrael but I don't think Lapid is as catastrophic as depicted. He's an opportunist who changes his tune six times a day. Sharon was powerful enough to pull off the disengagement. I don't see Lapid having that kind of political capital.
(And remember that more often than not, right wing govts concede and left wing gets us into war).
I'm not worried as much as disgusted by the whole clown car.
I might do a hold the nose vote for Likud but I hate that in recent memory for both American and Israeli elections, I'm voting against the worst possible choice rather than for any politicians that represents me.
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:56 am
gingertop wrote:
I agree with you BYIsrael but I don't think Lapid is as catastrophic as depicted. He's an opportunist who changes his tune six times a day. Sharon was powerful enough to pull off the disengagement. I don't see Lapid having that kind of political capital.
(And remember that more often than not, right wing govts concede and left wing gets us into war).
I'm not worried as much as disgusted by the whole clown car.
I might do a hold the nose vote for Likud but I hate that in recent memory for both American and Israeli elections, I'm voting against the worst possible choice rather than for any politicians that represents me.


So, as a female middle of the road - politically and religiously - DL voter, I totally feel like I have no one to represent me (as in the April election too).
So I will once again hold my nose and vote Likud.
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grace413




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 8:04 am
byisrael wrote:

I am staunchly charedi but also staunchly right wing - I am genuinly worried about lapid being PM. I will probably vote Likud holding my nose because of Netanyahu or Gimmel holding my nose because of Litzman....


Most voters will be holding their noses regardless of who they vote for. Sad
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jerusalem90




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 10:30 am
gingertop wrote:

I might do a hold the nose vote for Likud but I hate that in recent memory for both American and Israeli elections, I'm voting against the worst possible choice rather than for any politicians that represents me.


In the April election I actually did feel like I was voting for someone who represented me (New Right), but then they didn't make the threshold. This election I'm only considering parties that I feel certain will make the threshold (so Likud or Otzmah unless things change by election times. A good spinoff would be: attn DL voters, would you vote for Otzma or Likud, and why?
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 11:02 am
Jerusalem 90, I'd love it if you would kick off that spin-off.

For myself, I think that the Likud has a really strong team, but I don't trust Bibi to have my interests at heart, and he's the one who calls the shots. I value Torah, Am Yisrael, and Eretz Yisrael. He values the security of the state of Israel, and is willing to sacrifice just about anything to obtain it.

[Fun thing I've noticed: If you watch Bibi give a speech, most of his body language is flawlessly trained...except for his hands. When he's politicking, he gestures with his left hand. Whenever he talks about something which he actually means, his left hand goes for self touch, usually he puts it in his pocket, and he gestures with his right hand. Watch any clip of him giving a standing speech, and you'll see that it's true.]

And once you read between the lines of what he says...well, I can't vote for him.
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 12:16 pm
They sent out their manifesto today. Basically, they want Shabbat in the public sphere, state laws regarding conversion to match halacha, a strong rabbanut, kotel in Jewish hands, marriage is between a man and a woman, strong Tsahal without political agendas, the kotel is religious and Jewish, and that education ministry shouldn't put forth any LGBT agendas. Phew, that was long
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Studious




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 22 2019, 1:15 pm
Those of you planning to vote Likud, aren’t you put off by the serious allegations of Bibi’s corruption and bribery? It would seem that corruption overshadows all political issues.
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 22 2019, 2:01 pm
Studious wrote:
Those of you planning to vote Likud, aren’t you put off by the serious allegations of Bibi’s corruption and bribery? It would seem that corruption overshadows all political issues.


I don't think anyone really cares.

I don't think Israelis expect professional politicians to be honest, so it just kind of comes with the territory.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 22 2019, 4:05 pm
Rappel wrote:
They sent out their manifesto today. Basically, they want Shabbat in the public sphere, state laws regarding conversion to match halacha, a strong rabbanut, kotel in Jewish hands, marriage is between a man and a woman, strong Tsahal without political agendas, the kotel is religious and Jewish, and that education ministry shouldn't put forth any LGBT agendas. Phew, that was long


I agree with almost all of this. The education ministry should stick to basic anatomy, reproduction, and health. Nobody should be discussing anyone's orientation, straight or otherwise.

I believe that halachic marriage should be a man and woman, but for legal purposes and protection of common assets, civil partnership should be available for those who want it.
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Studious




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 22 2019, 9:19 pm
Rappel wrote:
I don't think anyone really cares.

I don't think Israelis expect professional politicians to be honest, so it just kind of comes with the territory.


Well I care. I know a lot of people who care. There is a certain lack of honesty and then there is full blown billion shekel worth of bribery. It’s our money or assets which he is allegedly using for his own personal benefit. I honestly don’t understand how you can ignore that.
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Jewishmom8




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 22 2019, 9:23 pm
grace413 wrote:
Most voters will be holding their noses regardless of who they vote for. Sad

THIS
and I vote gimmel.
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jerusalem90




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 22 2019, 9:38 pm
Studious wrote:
Well I care. I know a lot of people who care. There is a certain lack of honesty and then there is full blown billion shekel worth of bribery. It’s our money or assets which he is allegedly using for his own personal benefit. I honestly don’t understand how you can ignore that.


I care, but I care more about not letting another Gush Katif or Oslo type disaster happen, which I see as a likely possibility if the Left takes control. Better we lose money than the holy Land that HaShem gave us, or Jewish lives.

I'm not necessarily voting Likud, but if I don't it will be for Otzma (or similar) who I'd be sure would make a coalition with Likud.
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jerusalem90




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 22 2019, 9:44 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
I agree with almost all of this. The education ministry should stick to basic anatomy, reproduction, and health. Nobody should be discussing anyone's orientation, straight or otherwise.

I believe that halachic marriage should be a man and woman, but for legal purposes and protection of common assets, civil partnership should be available for those who want it.


I agree with you. I don't think of myself as pro-LGBT or anti-LGBT, but if I had to pick, I'd go with anti, as a frum woman. But I get annoyed when other Frum people go on about how it's "Soo gross", etc, when I feel like it should be treated no differently than other victimless karet sins such as a Jewish woman not keeping nidda, or a Jew eating cheeseburgers.

In any case, LGBT, for or against, is pretty low on my priority list as an Israeli voter.
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grace413




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 22 2019, 9:49 pm
Studious wrote:
Well I care. I know a lot of people who care. There is a certain lack of honesty and then there is full blown billion shekel worth of bribery. It’s our money or assets which he is allegedly using for his own personal benefit. I honestly don’t understand how you can ignore that.


You have a valid point but....I don't think the other possible PM candidates are any less corrupt.

Furthermore, my overwhelming concern is the security of the state of Israel and I think Bibi is the best candidate to ensure it.

Rappel mentioned that she values Torah, Am Yisrael, and Eretz Yisrael. Of course we will always have Torah but our possession of Eretz Yisrael is endangered if we don't have security and so is Am Yisrael.
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 22 2019, 9:58 pm
grace413 wrote:
You have a valid point but....I don't think the other possible PM candidates are any less corrupt.

Furthermore, my overwhelming concern is the security of the state of Israel and I think Bibi is the best candidate to ensure it.

Rappel mentioned that she values Torah, Am Yisrael, and Eretz Yisrael. Of course we will always have Torah but our possession of Eretz Yisrael is endangered if we don't have security and so is Am Yisrael.


Yup, this.
And this is why I'm holding my nose.
Whatever corruption there is (and remember nothing has been established yet and we don't know how much is a result of a consistent smear campaign) is less significant to me than the fact that I think Bibi has done a pretty good job overall until now and even more importantly, he is the only candidate who I believe is competent for the challenges of this job.
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 22 2019, 11:45 pm
Just adding that were there a religious party which I felt represented me and my views and which I felt would endorse Bibi no matter what, I would vote for them rather than Likud.
This is how I have voted in the past.
Sometimes I've voted Likud and sometimes Mafdal/Bayit Yehudi according to this principle.
Unfortunately I no longer have a "Bayit" to vote for.
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Studious




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 23 2019, 2:34 am
Sorry. I can’t trust a corrupt politician’s decision making process. Someone who takes bribes can’t be relied on to take the best interests of the people. It seems, prima facie, that he is only looking for his own best interests.
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BadTichelDay




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jul 23 2019, 2:43 am
Studious wrote:
Sorry. I can’t trust a corrupt politician’s decision making process. Someone who takes bribes can’t be relied on to take the best interests of the people. It seems, prima facie, that he is only looking for his own best interests.


That's why I generally don't trust politicians. The Israeli system unfortunately has seen lots of investigations and also conviction of politicians, from the left to the right and even among religious parties. So, voting is always choosing the lesser evil from the pile.
But as others wrote, security issues are of supreme importance for Israel and if any politician has a good track record on them, I'd be willing to overlook lesser issues like suspected corruption, until we reach calmer waters.
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