Stupid, pointless vent, but I'm upset

amother

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 7:57 pm

I am the only female in my company. My boss is a chassidish man and the rest of the men are frum, some chassidish, some not. There are two managers, myself and a man. My boss sometimes takes the other manager out for dinner, but obviously he can't go out to eat with me, so I'm not invited. It stings a little, but I can live with it.

When he brings in lunch they usually all eat in one room, while I eat in my office. When I first started working there I ate with them a couple of times, but I saw they felt uncomfortable, so I stopped. Otherwise I'm really one of them, I'm treated as an equal to the other manager and everyone respects me and is friendly to me.

Now my boss decided he wants to take everyone out of the office for a bonding type of experience. Maybe boating, he didn't decide yet. And he already told me that I'm not invited, he said it nicely, he said that obviously I wouldn't be able to go with them and he feels bad about it, but what could he do.

I hear it and I get it, but it still bothers me. Like I wrote, it's a stupid, pointless vent, but I needed to get it off my chest.

amother

Gold

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 8:05 pm

can you think about what you truly want and communicate that clearly to him?
what is the real issue for you?
obviously you cannot join in as the only woman in that type of environment given where your boss (and the workers) are holding
you accept your bosses' setting of the environment?
assuming yes so can you tell him what it is that you want -- to be...appreciated?
what do you want?
like poster said, a tangible bonus like a gift card in lieu of what the others are receiving?
since you initially ate with them is it that you would be ok with being the only woman and are having trouble with not being included?
would you want to go out to dinner with your boss like the other manager does?
If so, then yes you will have to find a way to accept the terms your boss sets. truthfully even if its professional its an understandable boundary your boss is setting. A bonus/gift does sound helpful. Would that address it for you? or its just a vent and not looking for a solution?
hatzlocha

PinkFridge

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 8:11 pm

If the outing's on company time and you're still working you should get extra pay.
And yes, he should find a way to show his appreciation while being within bounds of tznius. Very generic gift card should do it.

How to communicate this, I don't know. But if you are getting treated (and paid?) respectfully and as an equal, you probably want to hold on to this job.

Jewishfoodie

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 8:19 pm

Unfortunately not all bosses know the right thing to do. So educate him.

Say, I understand that as the only female, its not appropriate for me to be on this trip but it would be cool to get a token of appreciation from you, too. Nothing major but like, say a gift card would make me realize that you wanted to include me, and appreciate my work. Just sayin...

Any good boss would appreciate the heads up. Trust me.

amother

Lavender

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 8:40 pm

OP, if you've always felt this way, I think it's time to find a new job. It's unrealistic to expect that you should be included and be part as one of the team when you're the only female. It's inappropriate to be the only female in an all male environment. If you feel resentful, that environment is not for you.

Boca00

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 8:52 pm

This is not a reason to leave a job! It seems like you are being treated fairly and respectfully.

It's not fun being left out, but it's not something to quit over.

I get it. I work for a family business as the only non-family member. And, yes, it happens occasionally that I am left out of things. That's the nature of it.

amother

White

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 8:56 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

I have a similar setup. We are a team of proffessionals working in the same office. The only other female in the office except for me is an entry level secretary doing phone reception.

My male co-workers are of various chassidish backgrounds.
I happen to appreciate that they are not including me. It would be inappropriate.

I do understand why it stings you. It's the feeling of being left out all the time.

The only difference is that I came in knowing that this will be the setup so I am not really surprised.

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 9:16 pm

Jewishfoodie wrote:

Or, say that as the company is not all male, it is inappropriate to schedule company events that exclude female employees.

amother

Navy

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 9:22 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

Maybe suggest that he invites wives so that you can join. My office recently took out a boat. I personally had a nice time but wouldn't recommend it. They invited the men with wives since it is mostly women but we couldn't go in the water etc.

I like this idea, if you'd like to socialize with them. Or maybe he can invite your husband to join (if that works for you)? Or both?

krembo

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 9:32 pm

What will you be doing during the time that the men are doing their team-building activity?

Can you request that the boss pay for you to take an online training that will build your knowledge (and add to your resume if you decide to switch jobs at some point)? Something enjoyable that you want to learn? So you don't feel so left out of the opportunity to do something a little different during work hours.

amother

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 9:35 pm

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful replies, I was afraid I was going to be told I was being petty and unreasonable.

Boca00 wrote:

Thanks Boca00, I really feel that you get it. I wouldn't leave over this, most of the time I'm equal to everyone else, I don't get left out of conversations, I get paid equally and I really love my job.

And it's hardly every a problem, they only go out to eat a couple times a year, so it's not like they're always leaving me out. But it's so strange to me, the three of us have meetings all the time in which I'm completely equal and my opinion is absolutely welcomed and valued, and then I all of the sudden I turn into "less than". I know it's not how they mean it, but it does bother me.

I've thought about asking him for a gift card or a voucher to go out to eat with my husband, but it feels petty so I've never done it.

I'll see how this plays out before I decide if I want to ask for anything. Being that hes's inviting everyone but me I would feel less petty to ask for a gift card or something else. He did mention that he could bring his wife along, but then he said it still wouldn't be appropriate for us to be the only women. Most of the other men aren't married, divorced or not yet married. One of the only married men has a heavily pregnant wife who wouldn't want to join us.

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 9:44 pm

I actually look at it like this: I’m impressed that you have a great position in a chassidish office and you are treated and paid like an equal. I am impressed that the men act appropriately and you are never put on an uncomfortable/ inappropriate position. And you love your job! Count yourself lucky. You still feel like your missing the appreciation, so why not send your boss an email, which is less uncomfortable than speaking face to face, and explain that as others have said, you understand why you’re not joining, but you would appreciate a gesture on his part for you. Like getting the kid who’s allergic to gluten a special gluten free cupcakes the birthday party. Not as good, but shows that we’re thinking of him.

amother

Wed, Jul 24 2019, 9:44 pm

krembo wrote:

I'm afraid I'm going to get left in the office so there's somebody there to deal with customers etc. If yes I will definitely ask for something. I don't think I want to do online training while they're all having fun. I have to put some more thought into this.