Here we go again.... Day camp tips!!!

amother

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:09 am

Arrrrrrrggghhhh!!!!
Okay, it was good to get that off my chest...
Now I will go take out a second mortgage to cover these crazy, uncalled for, chutzpah of the day camps expenses Twisted Evil

The system has got to change, not normal that in addition to crazy day camp prices, I have to shell out another $200-$250 per kid for tips.
Thank you for listening Smile

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:22 am

I agree that in general tipping has gotten out of hand. I'd rather pay a little more for a service knowing that staff are being paid fairly than have to figure out for myself when/whether/how much to tip. But right now, at least in the US, there is an expectation that certain services are tipped. If you want to go out to eat and you have $100 budgeted for the meal, that means you DO NOT have $100 to spend on food. You need to take tax and tip into account, because those are part of the expense of dining out. Same with day camp. If this is not your first time sending to camp (and even if it is, you hopefully haven't been living under a rock), you know that there is tipping involved and this should not come as a surprise. When you registered for camp several months ago, you should not have taken the listed price at face value. You add $300 (or whatever it generally comes out to) to the tuition price and budget accordingly, because even though it doesn't come till later, you know it's coming and it's part of the cost of camp.

amother

Wheat

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:26 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Arrrrrrrggghhhh!!!!
Okay, it was good to get that off my chest...
Now I will go take out a second mortgage to cover these crazy, uncalled for, chutzpah of the day camps expenses Twisted Evil

The system has got to change, not normal that in addition to crazy day camp prices, I have to shell out another $200-$250 per kid for tips.
Thank you for listening Smile

What? Those numbers are ridiculous. My kids camp suggested $30 per camper, which the counselors divide up.

mig100

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:31 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Arrrrrrrggghhhh!!!!
Okay, it was good to get that off my chest...
Now I will go take out a second mortgage to cover these crazy, uncalled for, chutzpah of the day camps expenses Twisted Evil

The system has got to change, not normal that in addition to crazy day camp prices, I have to shell out another $200-$250 per kid for tips.
Thank you for listening Smile

I agree- its out of hand- the whole system

the cost of day camp- keeps rising and is out of hand. - which is big enough problem

at the same time- for all that they charge they pay the counselours literraly nothing ( yes I know the rules of supply and demand and that they can pay them less since they also get food and trips et- still I think its wrong to pay them $1.5 an hour )

with the insanely high cost of day camps- the directors and staff -are still basically counting on the TIPS to cover salarie

the tips- should be an (optional) bonus- not their main compensation

I still remember my first year as staff in day camp I had an extrememly difficult bunk, not the most competent co-counselours and came home every day compeltely exhasuted and stressed.

they also were not the type to tip- so I got barely a handful of tips and about 1.5 per hour from the camp as compensation for a month.

I hope things have changed since then. or they will soon. Smile

Last edited by mig100 on Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total

My4Jewels

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:32 am

Usually it’s about $20-40 per counselor for the whole summer. Not sure why it would be $250 per kid in a day camp. That sounds bizarre. Also tips are a suggested amount I do not believe both as a mom and a mom of teens who work in a camp that everyone can pay the suggested amount. So pay what you can with a nice note and try to focus on the fact that your kids were hopefully well cared for.

LittleDucky

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:35 am

Even if it is expected in certain fields (restaurants) it should not become the norm in EVERY JOB. Seriously. Tip the counselors. Tip the teachers. Tip the bus monitor. Tip the office staff. Tip the speech therapist.
Its time for mandatory tipping to end. Only if there was a specific reason you felt the need to tip should you. But now staff expect tips and feel slighted if they get less than they expected.
Camp isn't a luxury for parents who work full time just to pay tuition and basic bills. Restaurants are luxuries.
It has gotten out of hand.
If the salary is too low to make the job worth it, negotiate or find something better. If enough refuse to do the job they will have to raise their salary. Don't underpay and expect parents to make up the difference.

amother

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:37 am

My4Jewels wrote:

Op here, they suggest $25 for Morah, $20 for counselor per half.
1 Morah-$25
4 counselors- $80
Bus driver-$10
Bus mo itor$5
=
$120 for one child's tips for half a summer!! Mad

This is more than my other kids, because for some crazy reason, they made this bunk huge, but then needed a bunch of counselors since we they follow the doh guidelines. Now I'm stuck shelling out extra money

amother

Orchid

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:38 am

Do you live in Brooklyn?
If so, bear in mind that many girls working this year in NYC are earning an abysmal paycheck, and relying on tips.
Much more so than in prior years when there were many more teens on the YC program, and 14-15 year olds were eligible for the working program.

I do agree that the day camps should be paying these teens a more reasonable salary.

ETA-It would be nice if the DC's and sleepaway camps in NYC would implement some kind of system where tips are per camper and would be allocated only to the girls who are not collecting their salary from YC.

watergirl

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:40 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Op here, they suggest $25 for Morah, $20 for counselor per half.
1 Morah-$25
4 counselors- $80
Bus driver-$10
Bus mo itor$5
=
$120 for one child's tips for half a summer!! Mad

Its a suggested amount. Pay what you can afford and/or feel is right! Yes, its out of hand. They should put this info in the tuition contact so parents can decide before sending.

My4Jewels

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:41 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Op here, they suggest $25 for Morah, $20 for counselor per half.
1 Morah-$25
4 counselors- $80
Bus driver-$10
Bus mo itor$5
=
$120 for one child's tips for half a summer!! Mad

Oh ok that makes sense then to me. But I still would only pay what you can. No need to adhere to the exact tip suggestions.

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:42 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Op here, they suggest $25 for Morah, $20 for counselor per half.
1 Morah-$25
4 counselors- $80
Bus driver-$10
Bus mo itor$5
=
$120 for one child's tips for half a summer!! Mad

I would give $15 for the Morah and $10 for each counselor. They're just suggesting amounts!

groovy1224

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:48 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Op here, they suggest $25 for Morah, $20 for counselor per half.
1 Morah-$25
4 counselors- $80
Bus driver-$10
Bus mo itor$5
=
$120 for one child's tips for half a summer!! Mad

I would not pay that. Why would pay extra for the privilege of their kid having a ridiculously large bunk? If anything they should give you a discount.

The other thing I hate is when they say something like $15 for half the summer, or $25 for the full summer. So if my kid has 2 different counselors for July and August, I have to pay more than someone who has the same counselor for both months. $5 isn't a huge deal but if someone has a large family it adds up fast!

seeker

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 9:21 am

The "suggestions" are really expectations and should only be adjusted if the family really has financial problems. And if you're adjusting downward then it better come with a warm note.

I think a bunk with more kids and more counselors should "suggest" a lower amount per counselor and the greater amount of kids will result in the same net. This could also be resolved by the flat rate per camper that some mentioned above, though that really underlines the ridiculous aspect that if it's a basic required amount then it could just be included in the tuition. The flat rate also removes the incentive/appreciation aspect where one could give better tips to people who provide better service - though I don't do that anyway. Much as I want to sometimes, because there are sometimes clear differences in the counselors' engagement with their jobs, I strongly suspect that they compare tips and I'm not taking chances on being seen as stingy in case the same people come back to the camp next year. But one does have the option of basing the tip on performance.

Yes, it probably is out of hand. For further discussion see past threads...

mig100

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 9:30 am

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

If so, bear in mind that many girls working this year in NYC are earning an abysmal paycheck, and relying on tips.

I do agree that the day camps should be paying these teens a more reasonable salary.

I also agree- I think this is exactly the problem and solution.

the system now is unfair to BOTH the parents and the STAFF

day camps dont seem to be running on such a tight budget ( like schools are) they can easily cut out one fancy activity or promotional item- and that would be more than enough to pay their staff well.

ShishKabob

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 9:42 am

I honestly think that the counselors deserve whatever tips they get. They work too hard for the pittance that they get paid.
I don't begrudge them even if they were to get $250.00 per kid per half or more.
Now if only my generous heart would be able to extend to my pocketbook it wouldn't be an issue at all and I don't think the op would have an issue with it either.

amother

Maroon

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 9:43 am

Its not a fair system to parents or staff. The only way I made sense of it as a parent is thinking of it the same way I do of the school tuition + a hundred other fees. I add it up to start to know how much it really is. This year I hear because of the change in YC the JC's in brooklyn are getting around 300$ for the summer. Idk if its even 1$ an hour. I don't know why the camps choose to perpetuate this system, maybe someone knows. But for yourself maybe calculate the real cost and put it in your calendar to remind yourself next year of the "real" amount of camp.

amother

Orchid

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 10:01 am

ShishKabob wrote:

I agree.

I think staff tips should be included in the camp contracts.
I don't think they should be negotiable and the camps should be transparent and call it what it is-part of the camp charges-passing on a portion of the salary expense to the parents.
The sleepaway camp my daughter attends has a $100 mandatory tip fee included in the contract.

I have this same pet peeve with school "building funds" and "dinner fees".
I have no interest in spending $500 or attending the school dinner.
Don't label it a"dinner fee" when it's a mandatory fee, and is nothing but a portion of the tuition fee.

amother

Wheat

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 10:13 am

ShishKabob wrote:

I don't think anyone disagrees that counselors deserve to be paid fairly for their work. What mystifies is why that fair pay can't come out of the crazy high prices I'm already paying for camp. Camp directors need to work on budgeting differently if they truly can't figure out how to pay the counselors more.