Bungalow takanas | Imamother

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Bungalow takanas

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amother

Ecru

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 11:26 am

Group living is only overly competitive when people are looking into each other's windows. The question is what's driving the need for conformity. Or materialism in general. I'm not part of the Brooklyn/bungalow scene, so I don't know. What do the women talk about when they hang out? What is important to them?

Chayalle

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 11:31 am

sky wrote:

Kids aren’t stupid. And it’s not only young kids.

I find it interesting that on here women are so quick to say you must be strong and kids don’t need things.
But if their kids need tiros for camp to be in they buy it.
If their kids need uggs they buy it

I fall into the category. I refuse to buy name brand for myself.
My son is going to camp. He really needed some tiros to feel good about himself. I bought 2 pairs. Then asked around and heard that is what the boys wear. So I bought more even though it really bothered me.
Should I have taken a stand and stood up? Said no? At what expense?

Years ago I read a letter written in the Jewish Observer (I guess I am dating myself, huh) that has been like a guide for me in certain areas of life. There was a whole series of articles and letters about living within your means, about people who don't pay full tuition but buy luxuries, etc...(the same topics we are still rehashing here and elsewhere today. Nothing has changed!) and a woman wrote in saying that sometimes, what enabled her to basically live within her means for years at a time was the few splurges she did here and there that made her feel good about herself.

I'm not really doing that letter justice here (I should've kept it!) but it's that principle that I keep in mind. Maybe your buying tiros (boy, I have to google that! I have no idea what it is. What planet am I on?) for your son will compensate for his simple stuff in other areas. Maybe that will give him the confidence to say, I'm good enough and I don't need a million other things.

I use this principal in so many areas (we are okay with hand-me-down uniforms, honey, but you can get a new outfit for Yom Tov I"YH (actual current ongoing discussion with my 11 year old who thinks she needs a new uniform sweater, when there are two in her closet from her older sisters that look like the new one will look in a very short time...) And that outfit will be nice, and will make her feel good about herself, and she will be okay with the uniforms....

PinkFridge

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 11:33 am

I'm quoting this even from 2 pages ago because I think it's important.
I see this as a group of parents who want to rein things in and are starting now, so that it won't be necessary to buy/shlep these expensive toys, etc. because now it's a thing.
On the one hand, I wish we were back in the days when everyone would live and let live without needing what others had for oneself. But OTOH, we're not, and if you flip this, you almost have to say, kol hakavod.

OK, back to catch up on the next two pages to see just how off base I am Cool

watergirl wrote:

I say this all the time on here. What else can you expect when some communities start from a young age with "my child deserves to have what everyone else has"? It's a cycle.

Baby is born, get the same stroller as everyone else, with the same stroller blankets and those things (I have no idea what they are called but I saw them everywhere in Monsey and Brooklyn) that go over the stroller seat and cost hundreds. Everyone buys the same baby clothes.

Start school, the same shoes and even the same glasses. Same backpacks.

You get older and spend a fortune on the same overnight camps, so the parents who can not afford to send to camp have to find a way to send, so their kids are not the ones left out. And of course, you have to send a "camp chair" (I learned about that here a few weeks ago) and decorative pillows for their camp beds. Because, ya know, its "standard" and you dont want your kid to be the one left out.

Send to seminary, of course, because otherwise how will your child get a shidduch? When HKBH declared 40 days before conception who will marry whom, He only made such a deceleration for the girls from families who would send to seminary. Duh.

Come home, get an office job, become a speech therapist, a special ed teacher, or a graphic designer.

Get engaged and get the same jewelry that everyone else has. Because who wants to be the first one to stand up against the "norm" and have their daughters be the kornabos on their parents mizbeach of self righteous anti-establishmentarianism?

Pay up the nose for a "respectable" wedding. Even if you cant afford it or have different tastes.

Set up your home with what your friends have, and when the baby comes, get the same stroller as everyone else has.

*********************

So you see why ice cream and riding toy takanos are a thing now. This is a self created problem.

Have you been following the Mishpacha back and forth about clothing for camp? There has been a weeks long debate about saying no to your kids about the clothes they want vs. buying it for them because they have to fit in. Buying 12 shirts is not enough. It needs to be 24 shirts. Etc. Its very interesting to read the replies. This past week, there were two letters from teenage girls who were BEGGING their parents to say NO. Dont give in.

Yes, this is a problem that was self created.

ETA: here is the link to the letters from teens https://mishpacha.com/going-br.....mtl9I

PinkFridge

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 11:43 am

sky wrote:

The question is, did it begin with a doormat, or was it just one or two things, like the tiros?

mommy3b2c

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 11:54 am

sky wrote:

I will answer this post and your other post together. Of course you need to say yes to your kids sometimes. As with everything in life there needs to be a happy medium. So yes, if everyone is wearing tiros I will get my son tiros. In fact, for one son I get the tiros without him asking because I want him to fit in. But that doesn’t mean I get him EVERY SINGLE thing he wants. And I don’t need takanos to help me decide what I can and can’t get. So if you go to a bungalow colony where every kid has a motor bike and a Nintendo switch and brand name clothes then you can’t say no to everything, but you don’t need to say yes to everything either. Surround yourself with likeminded people but make sure that your brains don’t fall out.

southernbubby

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 11:58 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Exactly! These parents are probably not going to go broke buying daily ice cream from the truck or buying motorized scooters but they are trying to teach restraint.

amother

Seashell

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 11:59 am

southernbubby wrote:

Exactly! These parents are probably not going to go broke buying daily ice cream from the truck or buying motorized scooters but they are trying to teach restraint.

How does it teach restraint if the rule is imposed by an outside group, and not self imposed? Restraint is a muscle that can only be exercised when one has a real choice.

mommy3b2c

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 12:08 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

How does it teach restraint if the rule is imposed by an outside group, and not self imposed? Restraint is a muscle that can only be exercised when one has a real choice.

This.

amother

Turquoise

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 12:10 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

We're discussing a group of people who have sufficient disposable income to rent or purchase a summer home in addition to their usual homes, and who, further, are able to live on a single income -- at least for several months out of the year -- that allows one parent to spend summer away from any job she might have.

But somehow its the $3 or whatever for an ice cream that is the conspicuous consumption problem in our community.

little neshamala

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 12:17 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

How does it teach restraint if the rule is imposed by an outside group, and not self imposed? Restraint is a muscle that can only be exercised when one has a real choice.

Yup, this.

Our Rav once said something very interesting. He explained that he wasnt a fan of takanos-any takanos, including the wedding ones, because you dont solve the underlying issue, which is that people need to be able feel confident to live within their means.

He said that in the times of the Bais Hamikdash, the bikurim all looked different. The very rich brought extremely lavish bikurim, and there were no takanos necessary. You did according to your means.
Nowadays, we need to be able to say no. Let the rich people do as they please. It has nothing to do with you.

Evaluate your situation. If you feel your child needs something, get it for him. And if you feel he doesnt.....wait for this.....wait for this.....dont.

same with bar mitzvahs, cars, houses, extensions, kitchens, vacations, shaitels, weddinga, vorts, brissim, upsherins, yom tov outfits, mishloach manos, and bungalow colonies. No takanos needed, just find your self confidence.

ectomorph

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 12:21 pm

Life is not about maximal enjoyment. It is about serving Hashem, which is a combination of duties and figuring out what works with your personality.

amother

Amethyst

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 12:21 pm

Slightly off topic, but what are the aforementioned "tiros"? Sounds like a snack.....

ectomorph

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 12:22 pm

I think takanas are wonderful. They help shalom bayis, reduce stress on supporters of the community, and keep standards in check. I actually wish there were more takanas.

amother

Wine

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 12:23 pm

Just like some people may hold by a different rov while we do not hold by eruv for example some things we say no to for example we do not think electric vehicles are safe for kids so the answer is no even tho we could afford it - that’s life - we say pas nisht and are happy to set our own boundaries for our kids B”H

southernbubby

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 12:31 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

How does it teach restraint if the rule is imposed by an outside group, and not self imposed? Restraint is a muscle that can only be exercised when one has a real choice.

They are saying that as a community, they have chosen this approach much like if members of a family or workers in a workplace decide on a limit for gifts, Purim, or other situations where it tends to get out of hand.
Why do schools demand uniforms?

Raisin

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 12:35 pm

weddings are different then other things because then you have 2 sets of parents, (sometimes grandparents) and the chassan and kallah all of whom might have different wants and needs.

Easy enough for me to say I don't want to spend lots money on my daughters wedding, but perhaps her future chassan's parents won't be ok with a bbq in the back garden?

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 12:38 pm

When choosing a bungalow colony, choose one that works for you. If you like simplicity- go to the simpler colony and let the other colony keep their vices! At least: thats what we did the summer we went to a bungalow colony. I chose not to go to a fancier place where my family went and chose to go to a place with like minded people where these takanos weren’t necessary. I wouldnt go with my sisters and then ask them to have takanos to accommodate me.

little neshamala

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 12:39 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

What a sorry state we are in when takanos need to be made about bikes and ice cream trucks. Smh. In my bungalow colony there are dozens of kids riding around on motor bikes. My kids are dying to have one too. I told them no. No takanas needed.
Stop with the communism mentality. Everybody start thinking for yourself.

Exactly this

little neshamala

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 12:40 pm

watergirl wrote:

This should be mandatory reading. By everyone, everywhere, until they can recite it in their sleep.

keym

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 12:56 pm

Heres the thing.
IME takanos are only about limiting stuff, but not experiences. So the kids who have less stuff, money, etc don't feel bad. But because we can't tailor everything, there will still be kids who feel left out.
We try to teach our kids how every family does their own thing. But my kids dont have grandparents at the school plays ever (because their grandparents are not alive, live too far away, are unhealthy, have been cut off, have no interest). So my kid sits at the siddur party envious of her friends surrounded by dozens of family members.
My job as a parent is to teach that every one has their thing and don't compare. I don't expect to try to enforce a takana that only Mommy comes because thats insane.
So if my kid gets UGGs or Tiros or motorized scooters or whatever, I would appreciate if "you" teach your kid that same lesson. Every family does what works for them.

At my wedding, I had some nice things that people could have been jealous of. But I had no father to walk me down or give me brachos.
Should we make takanos that no kalla gets a bracha from her father because it might make a orphaned kalla feel bad (and I might add is a true issur deoraysa).
We expect this kalla to get over her jealousy so the kalla who doesnt get the diamond bracelet cant get over her jealousy.

Fact. We are not perfect clones, who live the same lives. Now lets teach it to our kids.

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