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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children
Phones for HS students
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amother
Brown


 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2019, 6:07 pm
I want to add that we definitely need to educate and teach our kids but giving a kid a phone while they are growing up is like teaching a 3 year old to cross the street. I don't think it's fair to the child. Was talking to MO relative who was very impressed that I don't let the kids have unsupervised internet access because of safety reasons. So not sure what type of PARENT would want it. The kids I understand LOL
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2019, 6:14 pm
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
I want to add that we definitely need to educate and teach our kids but giving a kid a phone while they are growing up is like teaching a 3 year old to cross the street. I don't think it's fair to the child. Was talking to MO relative who was very impressed that I don't let the kids have unsupervised internet access because of safety reasons. So not sure what type of PARENT would want it. The kids I understand LOL


Eh, I think I used to agree with you. Not anymore. I think giving a kid (teen. Not an 8 year old) a phone is like teaching a 10 year old to cross a street, not a 3 year old.
It has become an essential skill to learn properly, and very scary if not taught.
I'd rather introduce it to my child while theyre still very much under my wing so I can guide them.

Im through with all this "shield them" business. Its not working as well as it should have. (And im from the right wing world)
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2019, 6:21 pm
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
The brain continues developing until the age of 25. Impulsivity, inability to understand grey areas are very high in teens. Btw I am a seriously not narrow minded individual. I have a computer, tablet etc..I let my kids go on educational sites on the computer. I also know the perils of the internet. I know of a girl who got messed up with guys bec of naivete on the internet. Very sheltered chareidi kid. I talk to my kids and I would dialogue with them about this issue. It's not about saying no to EVERYTHING it's about saying no the the IMPORTANT things. And this is a very important thing. Secular parents almost don't have a choice but we do. Let us enjoy the fact that we don't NEED to give out or kids a phone with internet access.


So why not hold off internet access until 25?
Now, I absolutely think internet access (if given) should be supervised, with good filters. But it's not such a black and white issue, imo.

I do understand, though, if schools don't want to allow internet access. But texting, whatsapp, some apps? It's happening anyway and is hardly terrible
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2019, 8:10 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
How about ... not making a rule which you know many break?
Everyone knows that:
1. Kids have phones
2. They text
3. They whatsapp
4. There's very little wrong with it because those who want to talk to boys (that's the reason, right?), WILL do so

Why make unreasonable rules, again?

Request dummy phones, TAG oversight, no social media. BOOM! More kids follow it and easier to see who isn't (from social media, if they really want to). But no, we must beat other schools in this area as well, so let's come up with the strictest rules.


Depends.
If the parents have smartphones, go right ahead.
But they are still plenty of communities where the teachers and parents don't have smartphones still, so yeah I don't want my kids having smartphones. Yes, me and DH don't have one too.

I don't think you need to "learn" how to use a highly addictive device properly. That's like telling your kids they need to learn how to use drugs responsibly. Weed isn't that dangerous, they could totally use it responsibly, right? Well yes; but do you have to have it at all?

I'm not sure.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Jul 29 2019, 8:31 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
Depends.
If the parents have smartphones, go right ahead.
But they are still plenty of communities where the teachers and parents don't have smartphones still, so yeah I don't want my kids having smartphones. Yes, me and DH don't have one too.

I don't think you need to "learn" how to use a highly addictive device properly. That's like telling your kids they need to learn how to use drugs responsibly. Weed isn't that dangerous, they could totally use it responsibly, right? Well yes; but do you have to have it at all?

I'm not sure.

If you don't want your kids to have smartphones - by all means, they shouldn't! I was saying how smart is it really on the schools' part to prohibit texting, whatsapp, and some other useful apps (ex, city bus schedule) if many still have it AND it's really harmless. As I said, I hear about not allowing internet (I was talking about having internet in response to a poster who asked)
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salt




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 2:37 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
My HS daughter told me that most girls have 2 phones - one that fits all the requirements of the school (no texting/internet/dummy/kosher phone - whatever applies) and another one smartphone with texting/filtered internet/whatsapp/tic toc app/etc.

Curious to hear the anecdotal evidence from Imamothers. NOT curious to hear what you think of this practice; I have my thoughts on it and this isn't the point of this post.

FOR - "in-town" BY high schools


You're not getting much statistics, you're getting more thoughts. Which isn't exactly what you asked for, but whatever, this is a conversation.

But, if this helps, whenever my kids say "Most of my class has X", "All my friends have Y", etc, I literally go through the class list.
eg. my DD says "All my class get their eyebrows waxed".
I say, let's go through the list...
Sarah - "no, she's the only one whose mom doesn't let."
Rivki - "no, well, she doesn't really need to wax."
Rachel - "she's going next week for the first time."
Leah - "umm, maybe, I can't tell."
Esty - "Eh, she's not the type."
etc etc. Then I get an idea.

So with that example, of eye brow waxing - I think it was about 50/50.

When I did the same exercise with my other DD, as to how many girls have earrings - it was more like 35 out of 37 girls who had earrings.

Your DD probably knows how many girls *really* have 2 phones.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 3:03 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
If you don't want your kids to have smartphones - by all means, they shouldn't! I was saying how smart is it really on the schools' part to prohibit texting, whatsapp, and some other useful apps (ex, city bus schedule) if many still have it AND it's really harmless. As I said, I hear about not allowing internet (I was talking about having internet in response to a poster who asked)


You say it's harmless.
I say it's not.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 4:23 am
I know this is common practice for HS and yeshiva boys, as well as for parents who send to kosher cell only schools. My guess its 20-25%. I dont know how common with HS girls, but it makes sense to have trickled down there as well. I live in monsey.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 5:27 am
LovesHashem wrote:
You say it's harmless.
I say it's not.

Ok.
What's the harm in texting, whatsapp, and a city bus schedule app? Talking to boys?
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 5:31 am
salt wrote:
You're not getting much statistics, you're getting more thoughts. Which isn't exactly what you asked for, but whatever, this is a conversation.

I know, the convo went off a bit. I realize I can't get statistics on this.
And yes, I know all about "everyone has/does it" lol
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 5:35 am
My kids went to schools that allowed smartphones. One was in a dorm that didn't allow them, but she could have on her off shabbosim.

BUT my daughters had no access to the internet browser on their phones while in High school.

they mostly used their phone for whatsapp and camera, google maps, siddur and learning apps, etc.
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amother
Green


 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 5:43 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Ok.
What's the harm in texting, whatsapp, and a city bus schedule app? Talking to boys?


I agree. I used to believe the hype about whatsapp, and when I needed it for work I was so nervous to get it. Now I realize it was all just hype and it is what you make of it and it depends on who you hang out with. For some strange reason nobody is sending me dirty jokes or pictures.

As far as it leading to talking to boys, I grew up in the days before there were cell phones, and in a city without a good mesivta, so most boys left for high school. Somehow a lot of my friends, from good, frum homes, managed to have boy friends. The girls who were determined, figured out where and how to find the guys. I understand that it's easier with cellphones, but lets not be naive and think it can't happen to girls who don't have cell phones.

Instead, we need to train our girls, explain to them that they're not doing an aveira if they talk to a boy, but it's what very often comes next that's the problem. Explain to them that why they should careful about being shomer negiah and yichud and how to avoid getting to the point of having relations. That's what they need to hear.
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amother
Green


 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 5:44 am
salt wrote:
You're not getting much statistics, you're getting more thoughts. Which isn't exactly what you asked for, but whatever, this is a conversation.

But, if this helps, whenever my kids say "Most of my class has X", "All my friends have Y", etc, I literally go through the class list.
eg. my DD says "All my class get their eyebrows waxed".
I say, let's go through the list...
Sarah - "no, she's the only one whose mom doesn't let."
Rivki - "no, well, she doesn't really need to wax."
Rachel - "she's going next week for the first time."
Leah - "umm, maybe, I can't tell."
Esty - "Eh, she's not the type."
etc etc. Then I get an idea.

So with that example, of eye brow waxing - I think it was about 50/50.

When I did the same exercise with my other DD, as to how many girls have earrings - it was more like 35 out of 37 girls who had earrings.

Your DD probably knows how many girls *really* have 2 phones.


I used to believe in this also, until I finally allowed my oldest dd to get a cell phone and her contacts list was full in an hour. Most of her class DID have cell phones and I was too naive to believe her.
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salt




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 6:06 am
One of the downsides of whatsapp is that it's addictive. You can't have a normal conversation with someone without jumping at every beep and alert on your phone.
Secondly it makes shaming, gossip, bullying much too easy.

Obviously everyone's going to say if you know how to use it in the right amounts then it's harmless.
But the problem is if you don't...
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salt




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 6:09 am
amother [ Green ] wrote:
I used to believe in this also, until I finally allowed my oldest dd to get a cell phone and her contacts list was full in an hour. Most of her class DID have cell phones and I was too naive to believe her.


Well it goes without saying that you actually have to believe what your child is telling you.
If they say "the whole class has got"... then it might be an exageration.
But if you ask, person by person, and you don't believe them, then what's the point of asking?
And obviously, also goes without saying, that even after you've done this survey with your child's class list, it doesn't mean you have to end up going and buying/allowing/ whatever it is that 98% of the class have.
It just gives you a better picture, and also helps the child, if they see that "oh, ok, well only 5 kids actually have X, it just felt like they all did."
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 6:19 am
amother [ cornflower ] wrote:
Just want to throw out there that my child got themselves into a big mess via social media and is suffering considerably from it...

That being said I'd say about 20%...


20% that do or that don't
One of my closest friends is a principal of a very large HS
She says it's more like 75/25 , have SM/ don't have

It's a very big problem
When kids see hypocrisy in adults you lost the battle
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singleagain




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 6:21 am
salt wrote:
One of the downsides of whatsapp is that it's addictive. You can't have a normal conversation with someone without jumping at every beep and alert on your phone.
Secondly it makes shaming, gossip, bullying much too easy.

Obviously everyone's going to say if you know how to use it in the right amounts then it's harmless.
But the problem is if you don't...


How's that any different than texting?

Anyone who has a phone that they use to communicate needs to learn how to put in for in fact to face situations.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 6:30 am
we teach our kids that we send to certain schools for a reason and that we follow the schools rules
a healthy respect for authority and honesty
we do not teach our kids to lie rather to tell the truth and live the truth even when "inconvenient"
once another parent told me "all the kids are smoking marijuana.." I gently pointed out that if her child had told her this that meant s/he was or wanted to and she probably wanted to look into that. and even if "everyone was' we wouldn't follow that herd.
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chestnut




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 6:39 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
20% that do or that don't
One of my closest friends is a principal of a very large HS
She says it's more like 75/25 , have SM/ don't have

It's a very big problem
When kids see hypocrisy in adults you lost the battle


Her school doesn't allow smartphones, right? What's her opinion on the rules vs. the reality? Just thinking out loud - if so many (75%! Crazy!) have it anyways, isn't it better to allow it, with restrictions/guidelines?
What hypocrisy in adults are you referring to? These rules or in life in general?
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chestnut




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 30 2019, 6:46 am
amother [ Salmon ] wrote:
My kids went to schools that allowed smartphones. One was in a dorm that didn't allow them, but she could have on her off shabbosim.

BUT my daughters had no access to the internet browser on their phones while in High school.

they mostly used their phone for whatsapp and camera, google maps, siddur and learning apps, etc.


See, I think it's a much healthier approach. No internet, yes useful apps. Kids aren't lying about having smartphones. Makes sense to me.
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