We go on vacations and have a tuition break

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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amother

Brown

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 6:26 pm

OP, it's your choice wether to take such expensive vacations or not! The only time you're entitled to ask for a tuition break is if you really can't afford full tuition. Full tuition should be a priority to vacations. Go on local vacations like many of us do and don't ask for tuition break, it's chutzpa.

amother

Purple

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 6:28 pm

op why make a thread title which rings so provokingly?

amother

Blonde

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 6:29 pm

I think the question is how much does it actually cost to educate a child and how many people are paying full tuition? I have a guess based on the info op gave that she got a tuition break easily because probably most people in the school don't pay full, it's more like a starting point, right or wrong, I just get that impression.

33055

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 6:37 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

I have mental health issues and I strongly believe that some people just need a vacation for their sanity. We don't know if OP has any mental health issues.

This is just your belief. Perhaps you convinced yourself that it's true. I don't know that this is a scientific fact.

Using your theory, you could justify spending money on a lot of other things besides tuition because we all need to feel better.

Tuition should be based on salary rather than disposal income because basing it on disposable income encourages people to tie up their money in fixed payments. Then people can do whatever they want with their disposable income after tuition.

You could go on your vacations. I could buy my sheital. Someone else could build could build an addition.

amother

Pearl

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 6:44 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

yes it is we’ve tried in the past to cut it down but somehow adding every expense up ( food taxi airfare hotel ) it always came out to this amount....as another side point we have a child in a different school in which we pay full tuition but the full tuition there is $700 total .....

A one week vacation without kids is a huge privilege especially a luxurious one.

amother

Burgundy

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 6:56 pm

Wow $2,500. Vacation is a LOT. I’m trying not to be jealous here. I would love to afford that.
$1500 for 3 days with kids is also! Hershey park and a best western plus are WAY cheaper than that.
This post is making me feel really poor! I can’t even imagine spending like that!
(We Do go on vacation- we scrimp and save our miles and research free and cheap things to do.)

My opinion - I think you have real chutzpah to ask for a tuition break while spending money like that. You obviously have enough money to pay full tuition- you get a break of $2,700 - and you’d still have plenty of vacation money left over.

amother

Lilac

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 7:27 pm

I got my first tuition reduction ever this year. Why? Because my husband lost his full time job (with benefits lost). He has a part time job plus job searching/interviews. I work full time. (No benefits). I don't pay cleaning help. We don't pay for eating out. No bakery cakes. No bakery challah. No vacations. I could desperately use one. Or cut back my hours. And yes, I have loads of stress and am not the best mom I could be. But I cannot afford to be a part time or full time stay at home mom. Would I like it? I would more than you can imagine.

And yes, my tuition reduction is almost nothing compared to my bill. I can't pay it. And I resent moms who stay at home (without a severe chronic disease as I have my health issues too and have to work) and go on 2 vacations a year, one being super luxurious at 2500 for a week WITHOUT KIDS. That means someone is watching the kids. Does this price include childcare or at least the gift you give (like if family watched them)?

I just want a day off work. One day to run errands, sleep in, do household stuff... I am so stressed. And I can't take the day off. If you need a tuition reduction don't stay at home (again, unless there were significant issues like medical needs). And two vacations a year???

amother

Jade

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 9:11 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Read Dan's deals and sign up for ccs! My entire extended family (21 ppl are flying to San Diego with ONLY miles. We probably saved over 10k just on flights alone)

amother

Coral

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 9:31 pm

This is so hard for me to read

DH was a Rebbi for years then got a job in real estate. I got married at 19 without any family encouragement or thought of getting a higher education or career.

We have 5 kids and B"H manage to pay the bills most months. We often build up cc debt over Yom Tov. We've gotten tuition reductions for years.

Your post means that I can never get a nice sheitel, never go on vacation to New Hampshire or Niagara Falls, never have cleaning help, never buy a bakery cake.

I work full time at work and as a homemaker and if I was being ruled by you Imamothers who demand severe frugality because we get a tuition break, I would immediately feel choked and have panic attacks. You really want all your Rebbi's families to manage with the bare minimum of bread and beans from the age of 20-60 because they're getting tuition breaks?

I'm super careful with out spending and get lots of hand me downs but there are no such things as decent hand me downs for teen boys suits etc. if I wouldn't have cleaning help (3 hours Tuesday and 3 hours Friday), I would either go to bed at 4am or quit my job. If I wasn't allowed to buy bakery challah, we'd often be stuck with Matzah. Of course we're careful with money. But I'm so grateful that Imamothers don't rule my bank account because that would be severely stifling.

chestnut

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 9:45 pm

You know, all these personal situations comparisons are really useless because there are so many variables that don't make people's situations comparable. For all we know, people comparing their cheshbon to the OP are really comparing apples to oranges.
The bottom line is, she was honest with the board and they gave her the discount, knowing about vacations. It's obviously not the school that wants the last $100 from your income for their tuition and that does allow some breathing space. What more is there to discuss?

amother

Indigo

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 9:48 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

(Who said the OP is a SAHM?)
How much pay would you lose if you stayed home one day?

amother

Amethyst

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 9:55 pm

Heres the thing. We amoms all have different opinions, so too, the schoools tuition ppl also have different opinions. Im assuming u reported it . Or, ur school didnt care to ask bec they just look at income mostly....

But, I think it shld be based on income and if both parents work. When u start looking into nitty gritty of how ppl spend, well, theres a problem bec while u may be taking a 4k vacation(which my sons school asks), why is that more of a "luxury" than a higher mortgage??? I could argue that a vacation is a necessity for 2 working parents but squeezing ""into a 3 bedroom apt or buying a smaller cheaper home to pay more tution is possible to do. Others will say having a house is more a necessity and will therefore buy a house KNOWING THEY CANT AFFORD IT SO THEY WILL NEED TO ASK FOR SCHOLARSHIP.

But, we are all ppl, limited, and we view how to spend and what we "need" differently. But, only the tuition comm. Decides. Do I think its right that they dont ask certain questions on schlarship form? Yes, but so too I cpuld think of ways the school could save money instead of wasting my hard earned tution dollars.

So, if I start to get stressed and "upset" that im struggling/scrimping/saving...while my relative says she "cant" work and has that luxury while not paying full tuition, then I must stop and realize its not in our control who gets a scholarship...hashem is behind the scene and ultimately I was meant to suffer with little money for x y z...while those on scholarships have x yz bec....and if they are being dishonest...then hashem will take care of it...

I definitely know tution is inflated to cover others not payinh much bec although public schools spend more per kid, the yeshivas are choosing how to spend $, are paying teachers very little, and are getting tzedaka through dinner and fundraising which is subsidizing a lot of things in school.

If I report my and dhs income and choose to scrimp and budget with no cleaning help, wash sheitel myself etc...so I can save for childrens weddings etc...why should I pay more tution than somwone with same incone who owns house(I dont), has cleaning lady, spends on sheitels etc...??there should be a formula based on income and not spending.

Furthermore, if I and my friend sam both earn 100k and want deduction. If I choose to save 4k that year and not send my kids to camp so thst I can save up for weddings or....then next yr, the tuition comm. Will count that 4k as my savings but I already reported it as part of income....so if my friend sam spent her 4k on camp, then she will have 0 savings but may get a bigger deduction bec she spent her $ on camp(which som say is a need). So, unfortunately, therez no fair "formula" the tuition comm. Uses so

So op if u have a lot of luxeries and then go on vacations instead of paying more tution thats more "wrong" in my opinion, then someone who has no luxeries and then needs a 4k vacation bec workung hard with hardly any luxuries can make a vacation a mental health need. But, everyone will say their "luxuries" are "needs".

Just like I ses non jews on food stamps have expensive sneakers and phones that I cant afford. Well, the government only says report income and not how u spend it....so too why shld tuition comm. Penalize ppl who save bec they are reporting it twice?? And why do they get to decide how we spend...wats a need?? Just base it on income or have a set list of needs vs luxuries like mr a owns house and I dont so why shoukd I pay more while he is paying for his house? Its a luxury to own...but they have different....for each person...very unfair but it wont change and...hashem decides wat they will tel me to pay...so I need to remember that.

amother

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 9:59 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Read Dan's deals and sign up for ccs! My entire extended family (21 ppl are flying to San Diego with ONLY miles. We probably saved over 10k just on flights alone)

my vacations always include airfare through cc miles .....cc miles can always be cashed out so I took the equivalent into my vacation budget ( I don’t actually pay for the airfare with cash I pay it through miles ...it’s still money tho)

amother

Lilac

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 11:12 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

People have to live with choices they made. I didn't go into chinuch so I get "less status" (including being held in higher regard, community benefits like reduced food, automatic discounts, vouchers, not needing to pay dues for shul etc depending on your city. ). You get those benefits but lose out on comforts. Hey, I married a worker and he's unemployed so I get neither!! And I got to live with that. No buying a home for me anytime soon!

I am not saying "never" do X or Y or Z. But realize someone is subsidizing your kids at school. I realize that this is the case for me and am doing without a lot. Other kids at shul are wearing stylish, new, fancier clothes (suits on 4 year olds?!?). We don't. Cute, clean ? Yes. But not always new and not always name brand. I buy clearance. We don't do vacations. Parks? Afternoons at family/friends? I have to send to day camp because of work. But I am doing the cheaper, lower key, backyard type camp whenever possible.

I seriously coupon and shop sales but am snubbed by others for doing so. Or teased/mocked. It's painful and I am worked to the bone. And I go to bed late or just don't have as clean a home. Neighbors whose home is sparkling scoff at mine but I work full time (she doesn't work out of the home) and she gets cleaning help weekly.

I guess this is part vent, part "be aware". If you get assistance, don't be ostentatious or boastful. No one should honestly but all the more so we shouldn't be doing things over the top.

amother

Lilac

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 11:17 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

(Who said the OP is a SAHM?)
How much pay would you lose if you stayed home one day?

How much? Too much that I can't afford. Even if it was $100 I can't just throw that away. Especially with unpaid days coming up (chagim for start). And if I had another $100 laying around I would have a dozen better uses... Repairs, medical bills, RENT.

amother

Mauve

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 2:50 am

When we were kids my parents didn't pay full tuition (don't worry, we didn't know it at the time) and we went on vacation for a week each summer. That week consisted of a road trip sun-thurs with one big attraction and lots of little things and staying either by family or a cheap hotel. Whole week was definitely under $1000, but it was plenty for us as kids. It also meant one less week of camp tuition. We only went away for the shorter winter vacation also if my grandmother in Florida asked us to come down. She would fly us down every few years and we would all cram into her apt. There's vacation and there's vacation. There's ways to get away without it eating significant money.

dankbar

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 2:56 am

why did you start this thread, to incite people?
If you are receiving a break & still living luxuriously, at least keep it to yourself & don't push it into people's faces.

amother

Coffee

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 3:34 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

you’re absolutely right ...I don’t discuss it with anyone in real life but wanted to get other take on this. Also my vacations equal up to $3/4k yearly if that makes a difference.

I think it's fine. You were honest, they decided.

amother

Gray

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 4:16 am

Next week mishpacha/ami/bina article in the making....

JoyInTheMorning

Tue, Jul 30 2019, 4:18 am

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

Nobody is saying to manage with the bare minimum of bread and beans. There's a difference between buying healthy food for your family (which includes fresh produce and not just starches and legumes) and going on vacations.

As others have pointed out, it's impossible to decide each and every expense for every family. I certainly hope no tuition board ever asks to look at the details of a family's food budget and decrees that they should be giving their four-year-old one drumstick instead of a whole chicken quarter, or no chicken altogether. How awful that would be. And the tuition board probably wouldn't want to micromanage.

It kind of makes sense that a tuition board would instead look at expenses that most people consider to not be essential, such as vacations.

It is true that cutting out cleaning help probably saves more money than cutting out vacations. (At $10 an hour, 6 hours of cleaning help a week comes to $3120. Where I live OOT, cleaning help is at least $25 an hour, so you're talking about $7800 a year. Tangent: I think that the need for cleaning help can be minimized or eliminated by getting kids to help (THE most important factor! And teenage boys can help a lot!), lowering unrealistic standards of how your house needs to look, and making different lifestyle choices that don't really affect quality of life -- e.g., making one-pot or sheet pan meals instead of meals that need a lot of pans that need to be washed). But the discussion of trade-offs may not be relevant, because I'm not sure that the person who takes vacation doesn't have cleaning help and never buys bakery cake.

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