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Tragedy in Sahara sams
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yersp




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 2:42 pm
nchr wrote:
But also demand our camps and children exercise common sense. Don't send children who cannot swim adequately to water parks. Don't send children who misbehave to water parks. Yes, anyone can drown ch'v. 10 people down in the US everyday, 2 of which are children. But do your hishtadlus. It's like allowing a child to play with a gun or drive a car. Honestly, I've personally seen parents at pools, as another poster pointed out. Also demand better lifeguards because many of those in the ring-wing day camps and camps are not adequate.


You are absolutely right! I should've said it a little clearer.
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sky




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 2:55 pm
Previous posters keep on saying kids shouldn’t be allowed in pools when dark. 8:00 when they were leaving was not dark in NJ.

We want to place blame because it makes us feel better. It’s easier to say it happened for a preventable reason.
It wasn’t dark
Less kids were in the park then the capacity
The park was using its trained life guards.
It is rented out to all different groups all the time (not just frum kids).
It’s just a horrible tragedy.
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mom2zahava




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 2:56 pm
If I am remembering right when we went with a camp to a water park( probably about 20 years ago) we got those paper bracelets to know if you where a deep water swimmer or not some rides you can only go as a deep water. The camp had a list of who took and passed the deep water test
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 3:01 pm
mom2zahava wrote:
If I am remembering right when we went with a camp to a water park( probably about 20 years ago) we got those paper bracelets to know if you where a deep water swimmer or not some rides you can only go as a deep water. The camp had a list of who took and passed the deep water test


Another issue is that many of the more right wing camps (cannot comment on this particular one) have kids being classified as "deep water" swimmers, who should not be, either because of experience, physicality, skill, etc. Same goes for the lifeguards. On paper they may have passed, but in reality they do not have the necessary ability. That is a problem, independent of this event.
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sky




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 3:04 pm
nchr wrote:
Another issue is that many of the more right wing camps (cannot comment on this particular one) have kids being classified as "deep water" swimmers, who should not be, either because of experience, physicality, skill, etc. Same goes for the lifeguards. On paper they may have passed, but in reality they do not have the necessary ability. That is a problem, independent of this event.


Maybe you should say right wing camp in a city.

I’m in Lakewood and my kids have been to many camps and school camps. Or go to private swim sessions.
All have deep water tests.
All have licensed lifeguards.
Not all have buddies. Some have buddies. Some have that everyone has to go to wall of pool periodically. I find they have at least 1 of the 2.
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gamanit




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 3:05 pm
nchr wrote:
Another issue is that many of the more right wing camps (cannot comment on this particular one) have kids being classified as "deep water" swimmers, who should not be, either because of experience, physicality, skill, etc. Same goes for the lifeguards. On paper they may have passed, but in reality they do not have the necessary ability. That is a problem, independent of this event.


I don't see how on earth this is a right wing camp issue. The deep water test given by lifeguards is standard from American Red Cross. I learnt how to give them and followed the exact protocol. If you feel the protocol isn't up to par contact ARC. This has nothing to do with frum camps. Our lifeguards are all certified by the same American Red Cross as non jewish lifeguards.
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dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 3:09 pm
mom2zahava wrote:
If I am remembering right when we went with a camp to a water park( probably about 20 years ago) we got those paper bracelets to know if you where a deep water swimmer or not some rides you can only go as a deep water. The camp had a list of who took and passed the deep water test


I wish it were so, when we went from camp, to a water park. I remember sliding down into a pool that was very deep which I didnt expect as I wasn't a deep water swimmer. Thought it was like 5 feet but apparentIy it was much deeper, was struggling & nobody realized till I made it out of the pool.

Another time, we went to a falls with mudslides & jumped right in to swim in very deep water with slipping mud underneath, also didnt know, how I will make it out, but luckily stayed near edge, not going further in, luckily nothing fatal happened, but when park realized we just went right in, they were mad & showed us the sign where it warns not to go swimming there, & got everyone out momentarily. There was no way to see if someone drowned there because water was brown, with mountains on side etc...

Years later I did hear of a fatality at that place, when a camp went swimming there.
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 3:12 pm
gamanit wrote:
I don't see how on earth this is a right wing camp issue. The deep water test given by lifeguards is standard from American Red Cross. I learnt how to give them and followed the exact protocol. If you feel the protocol isn't up to par contact ARC. This has nothing to do with frum camps. Our lifeguards are all certified by the same American Red Cross as non jewish lifeguards.


That's right - ARC should be contacted to address this issue in countless numbers of day camps and camps I am aware of. I really don't want to say harmful things, but if I can out swim the lifeguard on duty and the life guard is reading a book instead of watching children, that is a problem. 16 year old kids who barely know proper stroke technique and form and do not have stamina should not be life guarding, even if on paper they passed the test. On the other hand, regardless of age, the life guards at a place like Kalahari are more experienced, educated and trained.
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gamanit




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 3:18 pm
nchr wrote:
That's right - ARC should be contacted to address this issue in countless numbers of day camps and camps I am aware of. I really don't want to say harmful things, but if I can out swim the lifeguard on duty and the life guard is reading a book instead of watching children, that is a problem. 16 year old kids who barely know proper stroke technique and form and do not have stamina should not be life guarding, even if on paper they passed the test. On the other hand, regardless of age, the life guards at a place like Kalahari are more experienced, educated and trained.


It doesn't matter whether or not you can outswim the lifeguard on duty. All that matters is that she meets the requirements needed to save lives if necessary. A lifeguard should not be reading a book, looking at her phone, talking to bystanders or doing anything else other than actively watching the pool. I was taught how to gently tell people "I can't talk right now". Any lifeguard you see reading a book should be subject to a lecture on the spot.

Lifeguarding does not require proper stroke technique. It requires stamina. The lifeguarding examination has several portions some of which test the lifeguards ability to perform an underwater rescue. She doesn't need to be stronger than you or have a perfect crawl. She needs to be able to perform well. My strokes are far from perfect but I'm a strong swimmer and am capable of assisting a 250 pound victim without the aid of a rescue tube. There is no such thing a passing a test on paper only.
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 3:57 pm
gamanit wrote:
It doesn't matter whether or not you can outswim the lifeguard on duty. All that matters is that she meets the requirements needed to save lives if necessary. A lifeguard should not be reading a book, looking at her phone, talking to bystanders or doing anything else other than actively watching the pool. I was taught how to gently tell people "I can't talk right now". Any lifeguard you see reading a book should be subject to a lecture on the spot.

Lifeguarding does not require proper stroke technique. It requires stamina. The lifeguarding examination has several portions some of which test the lifeguards ability to perform an underwater rescue. She doesn't need to be stronger than you or have a perfect crawl. She needs to be able to perform well. My strokes are far from perfect but I'm a strong swimmer and am capable of assisting a 250 pound victim without the aid of a rescue tube. There is no such thing a passing a test on paper only.


I know people who are life guards who are probably unable to assist even a child drowning under water. I know someone who is not even a licensed life guard, but had life guarded at a large public pool in Rockland County 2 years ago. This goes on in many very very heimish camps simply because they do not understand to what extent a life guard needs training.
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gamanit




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 4:06 pm
nchr wrote:
I know people who are life guards who are probably unable to assist even a child drowning under water. I know someone who is not even a licensed life guard, but had life guarded at a large public pool in Rockland County 2 years ago. This goes on in many very very heimish camps simply because they do not understand to what extent a life guard needs training.


I have no idea how they passed their examinations or whether or not you are misjudging them but that certainly should not be the case and by and large is not. Any registered pool needs to have a registered lifeguard on file and you do get inspected. I was lifeguarding and had only my original certification in my pocket and not the renewal and I needed to send someone to my room to fetch the original document for my renewal. I think you are very wrong in how you are judging our community. If anything I hear much more funny business from my non-jewish neighbors.
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gamanit




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 4:14 pm
I just wanted to add that at our "heimishe" pool our lifeguards were all trained and attentive and did not neglect their duties. When our camp went to a waterpark we noticed several of the waterpark lifeguards texting and/or joking around with each other instead of watching the campers. I told them off individually and notified their supervisor who also told them off.
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Reality




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 4:17 pm
nchr wrote:
But also demand our camps and children exercise common sense. Don't send children who cannot swim adequately to water parks. Don't send children who misbehave to water parks. Yes, anyone can drown ch'v. 10 people down in the US everyday, 2 of which are children. But do your hishtadlus. It's like allowing a child to play with a gun or drive a car. Honestly, I've personally seen parents at pools, as another poster pointed out. Also demand better lifeguards because many of those in the ring-wing day camps and camps are not adequate.


What is your vendetta against the "right wing"?

This tragedy could have happened to anyone. It isn't the "right wing" camp's fault.

Would you be reacting the same way if it was a MO camp?
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chanatron1000




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 4:23 pm
Not all tragedies occur as a result of negligence.
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ra_mom




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 4:48 pm
HonesttoGod wrote:
As a post note: there are emergency swimming training classes for kids which I personally plan on signing my kids up for. Of course it doesn’t mean it’ll save them chv but it’s hishtadlus. It’s something I can do to help.

Please advise where I can find out about such a class and are they for girls?
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iyar




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 4:53 pm
chanatron1000 wrote:
Not all tragedies occur as a result of negligence.


You’re so right chanatron. But everyone is in so much pain when they hear of a tragedy like what just happened. After the pain for the family comes fear - What if...? Blaming it on negligence throws us a lifeline of sorts. We’re so sure we’ll never make the same mistake that right-wing counselor, lifeguard from a different group, teacher who’s nothing like us made. Now we don’t have to be so scared.
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sweet




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 5:00 pm
sky wrote:
Previous posters keep on saying kids shouldn’t be allowed in pools when dark. 8:00 when they were leaving was not dark in NJ.

We want to place blame because it makes us feel better. It’s easier to say it happened for a preventable reason.
It wasn’t dark
Less kids were in the park then the capacity
The park was using its trained life guards.
It is rented out to all different groups all the time (not just frum kids).
It’s just a horrible tragedy.


All this,
Even my 9 year old son said he went with his counselor and half his bunk together around the park and on the water slides.
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yidishmamma




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 5:58 pm
sweet wrote:
All this,
Even my 9 year old son said he went with his counselor and half his bunk together around the park and on the water slides.


I’m wondering how was the mood I’m Daycamp today? Did they go on with the regular planned activities? Obviously I’m not talking about belz but the others
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HonesttoGod




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 6:20 pm
ra_mom wrote:
Please advise where I can find out about such a class and are they for girls?


Check google for places in your area. I found a few in Brooklyn , downtown and Williamsburg specifically.
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HonesttoGod




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 31 2019, 6:21 pm
yidishmamma wrote:
I’m wondering how was the mood I’m Daycamp today? Did they go on with the regular planned activities? Obviously I’m not talking about belz but the others

My sons day camp was camp as normal. According to Chai Lifeline they say try keep the child’s schedule as close to normal as possible because they need it. And my son didn’t talk about it at all once he came home.

I did take him late though I let him sleep in.
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