Tragedy in Sahara sams

momsrus

Wed, Jul 31 2019, 11:37 pm

nchr wrote:

You can place blame on a lot more than that. The water park, the lifeguards, the counselors, the parents who do not properly educate their children about swimming and swimming safety, etc. Even under the best circumstances, people, good swimmers, still drown.

Here are some stats from the CDC in regard to unintentional drowning:
1. From 2005-2014, there were an average of 3,536 fatal unintentional drownings (non-boating related) annually in the United States — about ten deaths per day. An additional 332 people died each year from drowning in boating-related incidents.

2.About one in five people who die from drowning are children 14 and younger.For every child who dies from drowning, another five receive emergency department care for nonfatal submersion injuries.

3. More than 50% of drowning victims treated in emergency departments (EDs) require hospitalization or transfer for further care (compared with a hospitalization rate of about 6% for all unintentional injuries).These nonfatal drowning injuries can cause severe brain damage that may result in long-term disabilities such as memory problems, learning disabilities, and permanent loss of basic functioning (e.g., permanent vegetative state).

Youre being cruel.

Get onto your soapbox in a month from now. Not when a young child just passed away.

Mevater

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 12:31 am

nchr wrote:

How many Chassidish boys from Pupa aged 8 can pass a real deep water swimming test? Communicate proficiently in English? (This is not a bad thing, BTW. Just a fact we need to be aware of)
What about Torah VeDaas?
Now try Yavneh?
The Dalton School?

This is not negative. It's just a fact that water park employees and camp staff need to be more aware of. My sons don't speak english well at this point.

If there were more fatalities due to drowning in Chassidishe camps and bungalow colonies than non Chassidish camps and bungalow colonies, your statement might have validity. But I havent heard of ANY MORE fatalities due to drowning in Chassidish camps and colonies, relative to non-Chassidish camps and colonies in the last 50 years.

I dont think theres even a tiny connection between being Chassidish and statistics of drowning.

Chayalle

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 9:39 am

summer0808 wrote:

I am chassidish (the type that wouldve sent to one of these daycamps if I lived in BP), grew up in BP and now live in lakewood. I have a lot of family and friends in BP & Williamsburg of this type.Reality I dont think you get the type of kids that go to these daycamps.

These kids have no exposure to swimming other than the 2-3 times a week they go swimming in daycamp. Usually in an overcrowded pool for less than an hour each time. NO they dont go swimming in the Y and get swimming lessons there. When theyre in school 6 days a week till 5-6 PM ! (ok fridays shorter)

here in lakewood there are many backyard pools so most kids get swimming lessons and/or are part of informal pool clubs so most kids will get that pool exposure. Also those that go to the country get that pool exposure. But the ones in the city usually have no proper swim exposure, no pool rules experience etc.

My son went there tonight. The director asked a shaila from the Rachmistrivka Rebbe and spoke to the headcounselour from last night. They approved going back there as they felt it was safe. But that we should daven of course.

I don't know what goes on today. But when I was a little girl my parents used to send me to a Chassidish daycamp in my neighborhood (affiliated with a specific Chassidus. It was convenient, inexpensive, etc...) I remember being in 2nd grade, and the only deep water swimmers in the entire bunk was myself and another girl from my more Litvishe school who also attended the daycamp. We had the deep-end of the pool all to ourselves, even when some of the older bunks had swimming at the same time as us.

As a parent of 3 girls, my kids practically grew up in the water. All of them were deep water swimmers by age 5 the latest. No swimming lessons. Just daily exposure to the water.

So I do think it may be cultural, though of course there are exceptions to the rule in every society. I have Litvish friends who never learned to swim, but it's a rarity. And I remember Chassidish kids who also came to the local pool often.

Chayalle

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 9:54 am

AmGold wrote:

the talk here is making me soooo sick. you guys seriously don't believe that there is a God? how does knowing how to swim come in? can't Hashem make a professional lifeguard drown in a kiddie swimming pool?

I believe 1000% that Hashem runs the world and intended this tragedy to happen. Hashem has a plan that we don't understand. My heart goes out to the family, community, friends, kids in his daycamp who were there, and all of Klal Yisrael. We are all mourning. I was wiping away tears this morning reading about the L'vaya details on YW. We are all one family.

I also believe there are lessons to be learned from it for us, and that Hashem wants us to learn lessons from this. Chacham Lev Yikach Mussar.

*the fact that many of these trips are organized for kids who are too young for it. (I think 9 is usually ok, but I remember feeling very uncomfortable when DD was 7 and being taken on those trips. She didn't need it, but of course once the daycamp hyped them up about it, I would've been hard-pressed to keep her home.) Personally I would be very happy if the hype of all these camp trips came down a bit (along with the price of daycamp, while they are at it.)

*Pool and water park safety. We should coach our kids about staying with a buddy, and of course, we should not send them if they don't know how to swim. Or they should keep off rides with a landing pool area if they can't swim. Common sense. Don't go near the pool alone, no running near a pool, etc...

*more camp staff when campers are taken on trips. My girls were telling me that they remember that on one camp trip, they were with their friends, and they suddenly came upon their friend's sister, who was about 5 or 6 years old at the time, crying. Not even from the same daycamp - several camps of various age ranges were there. She had become separated from her bunk and found herself in this huge amusement park, totally alone, rented out to several camps with 100's of strangers going about and no one stopping for a little crying girl. B"H they noticed her and took her to a camp director. Things like this happen all the time, when young campers go on a trip with 2 counselors for a large group of 20+ kids who are allowed to go around by themselves. Yes mothers wake up, this is what is going on on camp trips. Would you trust the non-Jewish staff hired by the parks to babysit your kids? No? Then the camp should have more staff in charge of campers on a trip.

*perhaps these trips should not be scheduled during the 3 weeks, a time of mourning for us? Maybe a Rav should be asked about this.

May we learn the appropriate lessons, and may no more tragedies happen.