Running out of money - what do you do?

amother

Ginger

Wed, Jul 31 2019, 9:40 pm

Sorry fixating on the car/minivan issue here...

What about selling your current car and getting a slightly larger car with good mileage that WILL fit 3 across? Two cars is double the maintenance, insurance, registration, inspection etc. And a car, especially with good mileage, will be WAY cheaper to run (gas etc.) than ANY minivan.

baby12x

Wed, Jul 31 2019, 10:55 pm

There is no magic solution and we can give you tips from today full tomorrow but saying $3 on your electric bill is not going to give you an extra $1,000 a month.

The easiest thing would for you for you to get a job (or work more hours) or your husband get a side job to increase your income.
Alternatively, you can cut childcare.

You can't not go into debt and be home for your kids. You have to decide which is more important to you. (No judgment either way but it's a choice you have to make)

amother

Jade

Wed, Jul 31 2019, 11:06 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

This.

And there are some very good therapists with Arab or Indian names.

Hopefully finances won't be tight forever, but for now, you will be better off with less expensive choices.

amother

Bronze

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 3:29 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you all for your replies. I'm not necessarily looking for tips on how to be more frugal - I learned a lot from my parents on that and like others have said, there's a lot of online resources out there.
I also don't want to post too much information about my specific situation as I don't want to be identified.
In short, though, I do have a budget. I'm expecting my third iyH and have a toddler and a baby. Big expenses are a minivan, possible bris (we're keeping it a surprise), and maternity leave. My husband was out of a job for a few months this year, plus he's only been making minimum wage when he has had a job so that's been setting us back (I also didn't get onto snap till recently even though we qualified earlier).
General expenses are: approx 1500 rent and utilities, 950 childcare, 275 husband health insurance, 60 for cell phones, 1000+ for therapy (this is a big one, it used to be less as more was covered by insurance and just my husband was going - now he switched therapists and we're in marriage therapy too and it's sucking us dry. we're already getting a discount for the marriage therapy through a community organization and it could be that we can submit some of the bills to the insurance but I was told that marriage therapy probably won't be covered and my husband's therapist doesn't accept his insurance (both therapists don't)), food is covered by snap for the most part, 300 for household goods, 80 transportation (includes gas for the one car we have and taxis if my husband has to take), 50-100 for clothes (we get a lot of hand me downs and gifts bH and I've been trying to hold off on buying much for myself), 20 for laundry, etc. There are some more items on the list but nothing too major. I've had to put money out for different health/medical situations and haven't gotten the money back yet but I'm hoping to get most of it back (govt insurance for my baby took a long time to come through, husband had to go to ER and they had him put down 500 till the insurance goes through, larger copays for psychiatrist, etc).
We started the year off with 15k+ in savings, we're down to about 4800 + a stock account that I have to learn more about to properly manage or take the money out if I need it (tops 10k in it). I expected to use savings this year just not this much and now we're probably looking at another year of this at least (husband will tops be able to work part time while taking this program/course). I really don't like not having any parachute, especially for the unexpected items that come up, plus at some point we're going to want to buy a house, etc.
I think if I had something to cover the therapy, or other expenses so that we could have the money for the therapy, we'd be fine. I know I've made the decision that it's worth the long term investment (husband needs something specific, previous therapist wasn't working out even tho cheaper, and marriage therapy was needed and I felt that divorce or the emotional physical toll would be worse/more expensive) but it's still a lot for our income level.
Anyways, thank you for your support. I know I'm better off than some people and I've bH seen Hashem's hand in a bunch of different places (we've received gifts of a few hundred dollars here and there, etc) just thinking about this coming year has been stressing me out as my parachute is running out and we're most probably not going to be making enough to fully cover all our expenses ... hope this all makes sense.
(p.s. I do use disposables and have a cleaning lady a few times a year (may increase that to once a month or once every other month) but I need that to manage. I also know that it's possible for me to make more money if I work full time but I'm not sure I can do that - though I am looking into maybe adding a few more hours a week. I'd like to feel that I'm a mother to my children and I'm going to have 3 under 3 iyH so working out of the house for many hours would be really hard on me and is something I'd like to avoid if I can) (oh, and no worries about birth control I'm planning on getting an IUD after this baby)

Since you'll be on maternity leave you won't need childcare so you'll save the 950 dollars.
I would put therapy on hold until you have enough income to pay for it. Putting stress on the marriage through finances can't be helping the issue.... I don't think it's worth it but obviously you know better than I do.
Not wanting to work full time, buying a house and having a cleaning lady regularly are luxury things that aren't in your budget now.
Focus on being able to pay for rent and food.

amother

Burgundy

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 6:08 am

You are conflating wants with needs in terms of what you should be spending money on.

Therapy with the therapist of your absolute choice is NOT a need. You objectively can't afford $1000 for therapy so that is now a discretionary expense. You are discounting many therapists based on prejudice and a sense that you are entitled to this.

Why is a bris a big expense? It is in the same sentence as a new car. Surely a $30,000 bris isn't necessary?

Why is child care necessary if your husband is working minimum wage job? Many minimum wage jobs have flexible hours - e.g. retail positions so it would be entirely possible for your husband to be working when you are home and therefore money saved for childcare. Your husband should look specifically for jobs with hours that enable him to be home when you are working. The reality is that many low income households do this - have spouses with staggered working hours because there is no other option in terms of child care.

Are there realistic plans for increasing your income because at this point it seems that you have the most valuable job skills and your husband lacks job skills so perhaps it makes more sense for him to be a stay at home father and you are the wage earner. Perhaps I am missing something in terms of your occupational prospects though.

amother

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 9:41 am

Since when is therapy a want, not a need? Do you tell that to people with physical illnesses? Why is mental illness different? He has a legit mental illness and is still uncovering more of his issues. And do you actually have experience with therapy? If you did, you would know how much of therapy is the relationship between patient and client. It's not like he hasn't tried different options but it's a huge waste of time energy and money to go to a therapist that's not working just because it's cheaper. Of course we'll be submitting claims and doing what we can (and if he's approved for Medicaid well take a look again at our options) but I don't see his therapy and medications as a want and find that hurtful.
Thank you all for your input I'm going to take this discussion to people in person as I'm getting a lot of answers that's aren't what I'm looking for and I realize that that's in a large part due to the inherent deficiencies of posting on an anonymous online forum.

amother

Burgundy

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 9:55 am

Therapy might be a need but if you don’t have the income to spend $1000 per month for a specific therapist then you don’t dismiss any therapist based solely on their names rather than attempt to find a way to find more affordable therapy.

Unless one has unlimited economic resources, the reality is that one does have to accept certain limitations or go into debt and spend your savings.

But it doesn’t appear you have outlined anything in terms of making more money. Is your husband getting training to improve his earning capabilities?
Do you work in a job that will bring greatly increased earnings?

So I am confused as to what kind of advice you were seeking. Make more money, spend less money or go into debt and spend down your savings.

amother

White

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 9:59 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My husband struggles with mental illness. I have been in tough places financially. Switch to a medicaid therapist. $1,000 is a huge amount of money in a budget like yours and the difference between staying afloat and not. There are affordable options out there although I do understand the frustration and feeling like you're starting from 0 again with a new therapist.

amother

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 10:06 am

Thank you for clarifying. I guess I came off sounding judgemental because of the last names - I have no problem with doctors of different nationalities my obgyn is Indian. The problem is that he tried going to someone not Jewish and found that it wasn't helpful enough because he didn't understand a lot of the things husband was relating (things like minyan learning the social scene etc).
Not sure where the 30k came from - Bris is probably arnd 500-1000 and minivan would be 10k or under I'm not talking fancy just functional. I realize I'll be using savings. Looking for advice on other resources and how to go into debt well/smart.
Husband is taking a course like I said and Im not ready to leave my current job but am looking to ways to supplement. He works full time job with specific hours can't watch the kids (did before but this job doesn't work for that) and the course is in person with specific responsibilities and hours so well have to see what we can find.

amother

Blush

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 10:06 am

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

She's looking to get more information on community/state/federal financial resources.

amother

Plum

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 10:17 am

I realize op wants essentially information on state resources.

But I would like to throw in my two cents on the car issue. We had an oldish Hyundai Getz for a few years (I doubt they have them in the US, but it's a very small car). It had 2 and a half narrow seats in the back but we managed to squeeze in 3 children seats with 3 toddlers. How? I spent days on measuring and finding the narrowest possible kiddie seats and we always had to force the doors shut. But it was what we could afford and it worked for a few years.

amother

Ginger

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 10:19 am

OP, people tend to get resentful when you're asking essentially for free money.

I don't have a vehicle at all, and we live in a place where that's a real problem. We can't send to camp ($$$) and can't even take the kids on trips.

I get that it's hard. Really.

But just understand that people are going to be quicker to suggest you restructure your finances not to need that help, if at all possible (which it does seem for you, albeit not easily) than to offer you $10K for a minivan.

People do forget that when you are drowning financially, making decisions like this feels impossible, so the idea of speaking to someone IRL will likely work better.

amother

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 10:23 am

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

Thank you. I understand. In my mind I'm asking for help because I'm in a hard situation, not that I'm asking for people to just give money so that I can sit at home and do nothing but put my feet up.

amother

White

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 10:23 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My husband's therapist is not jewish. It doesn't matter what the social scene is but you can explain whatever is contributing to impairment. Did you look into bikur cholim therapy if jewish is important to you?

amother

Ginger

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 10:57 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you. I understand. In my mind I'm asking for help because I'm in a hard situation, not that I'm asking for people to just give money so that I can sit at home and do nothing but put my feet up.

True, but this isn't a one-time thing, where you need $10K and you will now be solid on your feet with no more problems.

You are currently stuck with an insufficient income and growing expenses. People are going to feel like they're enabling you to sink deeper into the mud and constantly need more handouts. As long as you view all of your expenses as immutable, and your income is less than that, you are on dangerous ground.

That's why there's more of a push to encourage you to live within your means (always a good idea) which will keep you stable barring extraordinary circumstances.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 11:26 am

OP, you say that you receive food stamps. Assuming you're in New York, the limit for food stamp eligibility for a family of 4 is $32,640, gross income. Your expenses are $4235 a month, after taxes, so $50,820.

This is simply not sustainable.

Your 2 massive expenses are therapy and child care.

You need to find a therapist who accepts your insurance. Maybe that person won't be as good. But you simply cannot afford to pay $12,000 a year, or more than a third of your gross income, on therapy.

Your childcare expenses are also very high. Since you're the breadwinner, your husband needs to find a job during hours that you're home. Even if he earns a lot less, its better than paying another third of your total income on childcare.

It would also be less expensive for you to use zipcar or Uber on those occasions when you need to have 2 cars, than to actually maintain 2 cars.

Hatzlacha

amother

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 11:27 am

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

I'm very much hoping that our income will improve after my husband finishes this course, ie in a year from now. If at that point it still looks like we won't be making it I'll look into full time positions in my field (most likely means leaving the job I'm at). I'm not expecting to stay in this situation for years on end and just expect people to give me money. I'd very much like to have financial security, especially once tuition starts. But right now, I'm pregnant with a baby and a toddler, my husband has a mental illness that is still being worked out (not just 'managed'), we're having shalom bayis issues, etc. and contemplating getting a new full time job and adjusting to that in addition to everything else (mainly the transition to three and having two babies close in age) is just too overwhelming, especially when I may be able to make it part time after this year (if my husband is able to get a better job).

amother

Ginger

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 11:33 am

I get that. That's why many of the responses focused on trying to minimize expenses, not increase income.

Taking the minivan out of the picture (by selling this car and getting a slightly larger one that can accommodate your family) will prevent that $10,000 investment, plus the other costs associated with having a second and/or larger vehicle. Having therapy less often and trying to figure out a way to minimize childcare expenses will lower your monthly expenditures.

Like I said, I get that when you're already in over your head you need someone to guide you, not a shower of good and not-so-good ideas. I hope you have someone IRL that can give you a hand with this.

Wishing you much hatzlacha and besha'a tova!

amother

Mustard

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 12:14 pm

Even if you switch your marriage therapist to someone covered by insurance and dh keeps his, that would make a huge difference. What’s wrong with a woman therapist for both of you if that’s all there is. 1000 a month for therapy is a lot.
Also realize mini van costs a ton in gas. Agree that you should try to get a cheaper sedan if you really can’t fit 3 car seats in your current car. What car do you have maybe we can brainstorm car seats.

amother

Vermilion

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 12:25 pm

If you're eligible for snap you should be eligible for most govt programs.
Where do you live? Most communities have organizations that can help you with applying. In Brooklyn there is cojo.
You should be able to get a free cellphone and plan. The other you can get a cheaper plan such as twigby or similar.
Childcare sounds extremely high. Any way to cut costs there?