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naturalmom5




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 01 2019, 3:39 pm
I have no idea why the Waterpark thread was locked

I tried very hard to stay out of it
But in reply to AmGold's mussar


קידושין כט, א

האב חייב בבנו למולו ולפדותו וללמדו תורה ולהשיאו אשה וללמדו אומנות וי"א אף להשיטו במים רבי יהודה אומר כל שאינו מלמד את בנו אומנות מלמדו ליסטות ליסטות ס"ד אלא כאילו מלמדו ליסטות

With respect to his son, a father is obligated to circumcise him, to redeem him [if he is a firstborn], to teach him Torah, to marry him off, and to teach him a craft. Some say, he is also obligated to teach him to swim...(Kiddushin 29a)
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momsrus




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 01 2019, 3:47 pm
It’s all true.

But it’s insensitive to write about it on a thread of a little boys passing.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 01 2019, 3:54 pm
Wadr

I just spoke to my Rov

Quoting a Gamarra exactly without any editorializing on my part is ok

The Torah should be learned to give the child's neshoma an aliya
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Blessing1




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 01 2019, 4:31 pm
Teaching a child how to swim is not applicable todays days anymore. In the olden time, the men used to travel by ship for business and ships would capsize, hence fathers teaching their sons how to swim.
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giselle




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 01 2019, 4:32 pm
Blessing1 wrote:
Teaching a child how to swim is not applicable todays days anymore. In the olden time, the men used to travel by ship for business and ships would capsize, hence fathers teaching their sons how to swim.

Of course it’s applicable.
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Blessing1




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 01 2019, 4:42 pm
Nope it's not. DH learnt it in his shuir this week.
There are many things that are only applicable in certain times or era's.
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Maryann




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 01 2019, 4:43 pm
giselle wrote:
Of course it’s applicable.


I hear that, but many times it's won't make a difference if someone knows how to swim
Eg, if someone in water and he bumped his head and hurt himself so badly he looses consciousness in water or if in pool (happens sometimes when overcrowded but not necessarily) and jumping up and down and by mistake gets banged very badly by someones elbow or something like that
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 01 2019, 4:51 pm
Maryann wrote:
I hear that, but many times it's won't make a difference if someone knows how to swim
Eg, if someone in water and he bumped his head and hurt himself so badly he looses consciousness in water or if in pool (happens sometimes when overcrowded but not necessarily) and jumping up and down and by mistake gets banged very badly by someones elbow or something like that


Yes.

AND NO ONE KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED HERE. ESPECIALLY SINCE THE POOL LOOKED SHALLOW ENOUGH THAT HE MAY WELL HAVE BEEN ABLE TO STAND.

This is just another example of trying to place blame, to make sense of the tragedy. Someone had to be at fault.

Maybe. Or maybe not.

Either way, you can tell me all you want that its acceptable to talk about halachically, but that doesn't make it sensitive, or right.
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dancingqueen




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 01 2019, 5:06 pm
Blessing1 wrote:
Nope it's not. DH learnt it in his shuir this week.
There are many things that are only applicable in certain times or era's.


I thought that saying things in the gemara were only applicable at a certain time was very controversial for many frum people.
Either way, teaching a child to swim is more important than ever. See all the links posted about child drownings nowadays.
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yersp




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 01 2019, 5:07 pm
SixOfWands wrote:


AND NO ONE KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED HERE. ESPECIALLY SINCE THE POOL LOOKED SHALLOW ENOUGH THAT HE MAY WELL HAVE BEEN ABLE TO STAND.



No one is to blame.
Story is (as heard from my friend whose son was there when the life guards were alerted)
The boy told his swim buddy he was coming in a minute and ran back to where they came from. Maybe he forgot something. He ran on the slippery surface, tripped and fell into the pool during which he hit his head and fell unconscious.
The boy who alerted the life guard thought this boy was swimming when he saw him in the water but noticed he was floating and realized he drowned.
They all saw CPR being performed and him being taken to the hospital.

This was NO ONE'S fault.
We gotta be proactive and remind our kids not to run on slippery and wet surfaces. Just like they shouldn't run on the any floor in the house that's been washed, there's no running at the pool.

This can c"v happen to anyone at anytime, whether at a backyard pool or in the bathtub.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 01 2019, 5:12 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
I have no idea why the Waterpark thread was locked

I tried very hard to stay out of it
But in reply to AmGold's mussar


קידושין כט, א

האב חייב בבנו למולו ולפדותו וללמדו תורה ולהשיאו אשה וללמדו אומנות וי"א אף להשיטו במים רבי יהודה אומר כל שאינו מלמד את בנו אומנות מלמדו ליסטות ליסטות ס"ד אלא כאילו מלמדו ליסטות

With respect to his son, a father is obligated to circumcise him, to redeem him [if he is a firstborn], to teach him Torah, to marry him off, and to teach him a craft. Some say, he is also obligated to teach him to swim...(Kiddushin 29a)


Saying so at this tragic time is terribly unhelpful. And what about Rabbi Bauman who Nebach drowned despite being an expert swimmer? Everything is from Gd.
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simba




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 01 2019, 6:24 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
Wadr

I just spoke to my Rov

Quoting a Gamarra exactly without any editorializing on my part is ok

The Torah should be learned to give the child's neshoma an aliya


Any Torah learned will give the neshama an Aliya. I don’t think it’s sensitive to harp on this one line from the Torah when we are so fresh from the tragedy.
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Reality




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 01 2019, 6:38 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Yes.

AND NO ONE KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED HERE. ESPECIALLY SINCE THE POOL LOOKED SHALLOW ENOUGH THAT HE MAY WELL HAVE BEEN ABLE TO STAND.

This is just another example of trying to place blame, to make sense of the tragedy. Someone had to be at fault.

Maybe. Or maybe not.

Either way, you can tell me all you want that its acceptable to talk about halachically, but that doesn't make it sensitive, or right.


Thank you!
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giselle




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Aug 02 2019, 8:03 am
Blessing1 wrote:
Nope it's not. DH learnt it in his shuir this week.
There are many things that are only applicable in certain times or era's.

Can you post a source?
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gittylove




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Aug 02 2019, 8:13 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
I have no idea why the Waterpark thread was locked

I tried very hard to stay out of it
But in reply to AmGold's mussar


קידושין כט, א

האב חייב בבנו למולו ולפדותו וללמדו תורה ולהשיאו אשה וללמדו אומנות וי"א אף להשיטו במים רבי יהודה אומר כל שאינו מלמד את בנו אומנות מלמדו ליסטות ליסטות ס"ד אלא כאילו מלמדו ליסטות

With respect to his son, a father is obligated to circumcise him, to redeem him [if he is a firstborn], to teach him Torah, to marry him off, and to teach him a craft. Some say, he is also obligated to teach him to swim...(Kiddushin 29a)


How are you so sure that he didnt knw how to swim? Noone knws the real story. The boy could've injured himself. He could've had a seizure. Anything could've happened.
Like, he was meant to die. People die all sorts of ways. Its ridiculous all these threads. So many versions of the story. Noone knws what really happened. Believe me there were amazing swimmers out there that drowned. There is no way to know if this boy knew or didnt knw how to swim and whats the point? He had to die. Hashem wanted this. Wouldn't happen otherwise.
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dancingqueen




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Aug 02 2019, 8:57 am
gittylove wrote:
How are you so sure that he didnt knw how to swim? Noone knws the real story. The boy could've injured himself. He could've had a seizure. Anything could've happened.
Like, he was meant to die. People die all sorts of ways. Its ridiculous all these threads. So many versions of the story. Noone knws what really happened. Believe me there were amazing swimmers out there that drowned. There is no way to know if this boy knew or didnt knw how to swim and whats the point? He had to die. Hashem wanted this. Wouldn't happen otherwise.


And it is so sad and tragic. Sad

But that doesn’t mean that going forward we shouldn’t learn about how to make these trips and other summer activities safer for everyone.
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