S/o why do men teach in girls' schools at all?

amother

cornflower

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 10:45 pm

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

I had a male teacher in high school 12th grade who taught us hilchos yichud of all things. was totally weird. he told us the story of the gur boy who saw a lady and asked his father what it was.

his father answered him 'its a tree'
so the boy said , tatty, can you buy me one of those trees?

obviously its a joke. but this is the story he felt the need to tell us for some reason.

I dont see the purpose of having male teachers at all

Why is a teacher making rude jokes about a diff sect....

1ofbillions

Thu, Aug 01 2019, 11:26 pm

I’m a feminist.

That doesn’t change the fact that in my experience in the BY system, the male teachers were on average significantly better teachers than female ones. It’s not just my opinion - I remember having conversations about this with my camp and seminary friends, and they all agreed.

That is not because of the way women are innately more emotional or any other ridiculous ****. It is because BY female teachers tend to be undereducated and naive. It is because of the way women are treated in the frum community. The unequal salaries, the “as long as women can change dirty diapers, theres no need to learn about religion”...

Let’s be open and honest about the problems here.

I’m too emotionally triggered to reread the above to correct my grammar. Hope my post makes sense.

dancingqueen

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 12:01 am

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

Women don't teach boys.

That’s what I was wondering. In a world where things are very gender segregated it doesn’t make much sense for there to be male teachers especially high school, especially if there are no female teachers at boys schools.

And wow there are some misogynistic posts on this thread.

amother

Emerald

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 12:35 am

1ofbillions wrote:

And yet that was your experience.
In my experience, our male teachers were like our female teachers - some great, some awful, some extremely under-appreciated and some revered.

We literally had a male teacher (rabbi) who would have us read aloud from an English halacha sefer. That was the class and the extent of his teaching. Why couldn't a woman do that? Is it just in case someone would ask a question and need a p'sak?

We had one rabbi who was unbelievably deep and spiritual. 3 girls listened (obv. including me) and the rest of the class did other homework, slept, etc. He didn't give tests so the motivation was only internal. He spoke to the first row of students and didn't care what anyone else was doing as long as no one made noise. Now, I enjoyed his class immensely and gained so much, but what about the other 20 girls? I think a female teacher who was better at teaching would have been able to reach more of my classmates.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 3:13 am

I really wonder about these posts. I had the most amazing teachers in high school and sem. Some were male and some were female. My most favorite teacher and role model, was a married male teacher. To this day, more than 20 years later, I still consider him my role model.
Why do men teach in girl's schools? because many times both men and women are the best teachers.

Similar to what I said in the other thread, why do people look for issues when there are none? And abuse can happen from a woman to girls as well. It doesnt just happen from a male teacher. Thats juts naive.

I think if I had only had female teachers my entire educational life, my education would have been strongly lacking.

Again, people have taavot. But being an adult, one would hopefully assume that 99.99999% of said adults, are not flirting with students or doing anything else not good. But rather, being the teachers that they set out to be. And some, darn good ones at that.

amother

Powderblue

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 3:42 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You know how many bad situations there have been with male teachers in sem?

The owner of the 5 seminaries a few years ago? The teacher in Michlalah? Just a couple that come to mind...

And then you have the jokey mechanech in Michlalah who teaches in practically every seminary- and the girls all have inappropriate crushes on him and flirt with him... (I saw it in my classroom all the time).

The rabbeim with the sense of humor that everyone gravitates to...

What makes women teachers less grounded? I guess you can say they are in seminary, but that's a flaw with the seminary system itself.

Do you know how many bad situations have been with FEMALE teachers?
No. Because it's hushed hushed a lot more. I personally know of a BY teacher who taught in many schools over 10 years and abused many many girls before she finally got fired. She is a divorcee with 2 young daughters and still has graduates coming over and some living with her.

Bad situations can happen to anyone, anytime female or male. That is NOT a substantial reason to ban male teachers.

amother

Powderblue

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 3:51 am

In my very BY school was had a female and male halacha teacher.

I never connected to female teachers. In our BY school the only male teacher was for halacha. Seminary was great for me, our seminary was scarred by the other stories and put up many boundaries with the male teachers. We weren't given their personal contact information, and they weren't even allowed to know our names. Our school encouraged us to reach out to their wives (call their home phone numbers) to go for shabbos meals. Our school also encouraged having a relationship with a Rabbi and we had a class on how to do that tzniusly, how to ask shailos, etc.

Our principal met with girls privately to discuss things but the secretary always dealt with the time slots and it was always during school hours, office in a central place, etc and you could often hear what was going on if you stood near the door and listened closely. He also always called us "Miss first and last name" even in a private meeting.

Like I said, I never really connected to women. I never felt a deep conversation/DMC helped me much. Anything they told me I could hear from a good friend too; it just wasn't for me. When I got a Rabbi from seminary, that was really awesome. Blunt, to the point, gets to the solution easily, knows the halachos, and was also very sensitive and kind and empathetic but not in a gooshey dmc way. I got to leave the emotions and stuff for my friends who I felt knew how to answer me better.

amother

Mint

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 4:06 am

amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:

This is absolutely true, BUT, statistically speaking how many men are guilty for every one woman we hear about? How many "respected rabbis" are being hushed up and protected?

The vast majority of child molesters are men, but the vast majority of men are not child molesters. How do you apply this logic problem to our schools? Boys are every bit at risk, if not more, than girls are. Should we just ban men from any position of power over children?

If a man cannot be trusted to walk down the street, say hello to a neighbor, and to speak properly on the phone, then why on earth would you trust a man to be around our precious and innocent children?

After all, men were created with taavos, and they can't help it. They are always tempted, all the time, and any little thing can set them off. It's a good thing, because that proves how sensitive they are. They can't be held responsible if they don't enforce personal boundaries. That would be asking too much from them, to go against their G-d given nature.

amother

Lemon

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 4:15 am

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

I prefer a man at the helm of a girls school. My daughters had incredible halacha rebbeim. I called my 12th grade kashrus rabbi after I was married to go over how to cook meat and dairy if I have 1 oven.
Female teachers are more chumradik, less forgiving in my experience. I find girls schools where theres a Rav over the menaheles are healthier. Women get serious Napoleon complexes.

That is seriously chauvanist.
I personally hate it when there is a man at the 'helm' of a girls' school. I think having male teachers is fine, but having a man at the head sends the wrong message to the girls. It's like women can do all the lesser jobs, but they need a man at the top to keep things under control, even in an overwhelmingly female environment.

I think having a woman at the head of such a school sends a good role model to the girls.

Also, I haven't noticed that women in power have 'Napoleon complexes' more than their male peers. Maybe you just expect a man to wield power, and find it unsettling when a woman does.

amother

Lemon

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 4:19 am

dancingqueen wrote:

This. Although I personally think a mix of female and male is healthy, I don't think it has a place in a segregated system like BY. If you are going to separate the genders, be consistent.

Why can men enter a girls' school and teach, or even manage the whole school, and women can't do the same at a boys' high school?

(BTW, I am a teacher at a boys' high school in Israel, so it is doable. But it doesn't happen in the charedi system - only men are allowed to teach girls. It's almost as if they are saying, we need the men to impart their important knowledge and leadership skills to the poor girls, but we have no need for females in a boys' school, they have nothing extra to give).

slushiemom

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 4:27 am

I actually completely agree. I do think there's a difference between a teacher who comes in front of a large class, gives over his shiur and leaves, and a teacher who has long discussions and shmoozes, who the girls seek out for private conversations, go to for shabbos, etc.

I don't see a purpose for a male to be placed in the latter scenario. The young, developing girls end up completely fawning all over the Rabbis, sometimes openly, and I just find it highly inappropriate.

LovesHashem

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 4:34 am

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

After all, men were created with taavos, and they can't help it. They are always tempted, all the time, and any little thing can set them off. It's a good thing, because that proves how sensitive they are. They can't be held responsible if they don't enforce personal boundaries. That would be asking too much from them, to go against their G-d given nature.

Wait...what?
Of course they can help it! It's called self control! The new to be held responsible for whatever they do, what do you think they are? Beasts devoid of free will?

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 5:19 am

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

I really hope this was said in sarcasm. If not, why do women on this site has such small opinions of men?
Men are not animals. And yes, even if they have desires, most normal grown men are not walking around thinking about 2exual things 24/7.

mommish613

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 7:09 am

I always thought the idea was to introduce the concept of asking halachos to a rabbi. We always had rabbis for Halacha- we asked they answered sometimes with an actual psak. Let’s face it- a woman is not as well versed in halachos. In certain classes girls would ask questions and the teacher would have to speak to a Rav and get back to them.

Women should be able to ask their Rav shaalos but choose your Rav carefully. Yes, some men abuse the system but there are many people who work in fields that are ill suited for them. How many rebbeim in yeshivas should not be teaching?

We can’t loose faith in humanity. Majority of them are okay. There are a few bad apples and those are the ones you hear about. But there are so many many wonderful Rabbi teachers. Yes, the world is a diff place than when R’ Avigdor Miller taught but men were always men. We just have to make sure our schools are choosing the right ones.

allthingsblue

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 7:17 am

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

What exactly are you saying in your last paragraph? As far as I know, Halacha and American law hold men responsible if they break Halacha/law....

Similar to the shadchan thread, I don't think a young, newly married man should teach in a girls' school, but an older, established man with his wife's trust is more ok.

I've had all sorts of male teachers. 1 was definitely off, making weird comments about students looking like movie stars. The others were all great; I still am close with two today, and ask them many questions (one is a poseik).

singleagain

Fri, Aug 02 2019, 7:54 am

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

It sounds to me like these two examples just weren't good teachers... Personality wise. A teacher should be engaging students. Not robotic like reading from a book (which the student could do) and not only teaching to the students in the front row and not caring about the rest of the class.