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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
S/o why do men teach in girls' schools at all?
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 4:59 am
Those of you who think that only men can teach halacha - did you have a male kallah teacher? Seriously, why couldn't female teachers do the job? High school teachers don't give piskei halacha. They just teach the known rules.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 5:04 am
amother [ Wheat ] wrote:
Women don't teach boys.


In my boys school the English teachers are mostly women. But it does seem rather strange for females to be teaching boys mishnayos.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 7:28 am
I went to a school where we only had female teachers. I then went to a different school where they had some male teachers. Both schools asked a rav before coming to a conclusion. Most schools do follow a rav, and such a question would be approved by a rav.
Different schools received differnt piskei halacha. There is no right or wrong answer.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 7:36 am
amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:
Those of you who think that only men can teach halacha - did you have a male kallah teacher? Seriously, why couldn't female teachers do the job? High school teachers don't give piskei halacha. They just teach the known rules.


There are many issues with undereducated kallah teachers so I've learned on this forum. I don't think only men can teach halacha but it is easier to find a man who is qualified to do so.
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 7:42 am
amother [ Gold ] wrote:
There are many issues with undereducated kallah teachers so I've learned on this forum. I don't think only men can teach halacha but it is easier to find a man who is qualified to do so.


So teach the women halacha properly.
It seems, according to this thread, that BY female teachers are naive, chumradik, and ignorant. (To quote past posters).
Not a pretty picture.
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 7:57 am
amother [ Lemon ] wrote:
So teach the women halacha properly.
It seems, according to this thread, that BY female teachers are naive, chumradik, and ignorant. (To quote past posters).
Not a pretty picture.


Some are, some aren't. I'm not saying I was thrilled with all of my female teachers- far from it. I wasn't thrilled with all my male teachers, either.

I'd just say that putting a man in a setting of frequent interaction with a bunch of young, impressionable girls is לפני עור לא תתן מכשול.

I know that molestation is a big issue in boys' yeshivas, as well, but men do need to teach males (not exclusively, necessarily, but definitely Limudei Kodesh). Men do not need to teach females, so why put them in that situation?
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 8:06 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Some are, some aren't. I'm not saying I was thrilled with all of my female teachers- far from it. I wasn't thrilled with all my male teachers, either.

I'd just say that putting a man in a setting of frequent interaction with a bunch of young, impressionable girls is לפני עור לא תתן מכשול.

I know that molestation is a big issue in boys' yeshivas, as well, but men do need to teach males (not exclusively, necessarily, but definitely Limudei Kodesh). Men do not need to teach females, so why put them in that situation?


I am not disagreeing with you.
I am saying it is a shame that people keep saying the female teachers aren't good enough, and that's why we need men.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 8:27 am
I had a male for halacha only. But, wen they let us have a male for chumash once a week in 12th grade, I learned so many practical life lessons from the chumash instead of just the "story and meforshim on the story". It was great. I personally felt women had complexes. I also from my experience find this everywhere women have power like even in my job, when I compare my female bosses to male bosses.

But, obviously, from this thread, we can see everyone here had different experiences. There are great male teachers and some not so great. So too, there are great female teachers and not so great female teachers. And, in terms of abuse....its been done by males and females alike. So, things shld continue how they are bec one cant generalize for exceptions.

Anyway, its so interesting to see the posts bec. I obviously, have my own opinion and life experience and its interesting to see others felt like I did.
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livinginflatbus




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 8:36 am
I only had female teachers in high school and when it came to seminary where there were men, I definitely felt like I missed out . Some of them were clear and really explained things well , in way that everyone can understand. I don’t see anything wrong ; there will always be people who will do things wrong in any setting .
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 8:42 am
We had some male teachers in my high school, for both Halacha and Parsha. They were amazing, and I feel that it's part of a healthy education.

What I admire tremendously about my Halacha teacher (and anyone who went to my high school will know which it is in a second) is the very appropriate boundaries he set with students. He is a Rav and tremendous Talmid Chacham, and he told us, on the very first day of 9th grade, that we are welcome to approach him with any questions we have; however students must always maintain a distance of 4 square tiles (he called them his Daled Amos) when speaking to him.

In the beginning we giggled and smirked about his rule...but as an adult, I look back and think how safe we felt, and how appropriate he was. I think it was/is brilliant of him.
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amother
Copper


 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 11:29 am
I personally never had a problem with male teachers, and actually found some to be my best teachers. Though I could see issues developing with the wrong guy, which is why sensitive vetting is so important for these positions.

On the flip side, there’s actually a boys camp in my neighborhood with a bunch of shidduch age girls and young ladies running it. Boys are probably 7-8 years old and they play water games outside everyday in their bathing suits. I personally find it a little weird that these girls are presumably watching and helping them change, pulling boys in bathing suits in out of water etc.
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1ofbillions




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 12:33 pm
amother [ Copper ] wrote:
I personally never had a problem with male teachers, and actually found some to be my best teachers. Though I could see issues developing with the wrong guy, which is why sensitive vetting is so important for these positions.

On the flip side, there’s actually a boys camp in my neighborhood with a bunch of shidduch age girls and young ladies running it. Boys are probably 7-8 years old and they play water games outside everyday in their bathing suits. I personally find it a little weird that these girls are presumably watching and helping them change, pulling boys in bathing suits in out of water etc.


Why is that weird? As long as the boys haven’t reached puberty, in order for the female counselors to be attracted to them, they’d have to be pedophiles.

Apologies for my rudeness, but you’re the one being weird.


Last edited by 1ofbillions on Fri, Aug 02 2019, 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bsy




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 12:39 pm
I have nothing against women teaching halacha. But I have not had 1 good experience in 4 years of high school. I did not learn a thing. My father was so frustrated, he wanted to offer to teach my class for free. But that school has only women teaching. It was a waste of 4 years when I could have learned so many things.
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Woman of Valor




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 1:21 pm
And why do you leave your house if you might see a man - is that also inappropriate? (gasp)
The answer is no. the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Men work in girls' schools because they are qualified candidates, equal or even more so than many women. and why not? because 1 in 1000 are bad apples? better, teach your kids how to watch out for predatory behavior.
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mochacoffee




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 1:30 pm
Reading all these replies this all comes down to one thing: common sense.

There has to be common sense among the principals about who they're hiring for what grade, and there should be ground rules set up.

I don't think you can stereotype the gender, it's based on the individual person. I've had excellent Rabbeim as teachers in high school/seminary and some inappropriate ones. Nothing to do with age. That's where the common sense comes in.


Some ground rules should be set up and enforced before things get out of hand - male teachers in girls high schools or seminaries shouldn't be overly friendly, having long talks alone with female students, going to the dorms, etc.... Everyone should be told this, not just young Rabbis.

Female teachers working in a boys school should have basic modest dress guidelines and have a female overhead that can appropriately and nicely deal with a female staff member that's attracting too much attention. (I work in a boys school where there are female teachers for older grade boys, the principal is male and would never comment to a female teacher if she's inappropriately dressed even with the guidelines in place) They also shouldn't be overly friendly or speak with male students alone for long periods of time...

Common sense. They should try it.
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Ravenclaw




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 3:11 pm
I cannot STAND the gender stereotyping going on here. Gosh.
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amother
White


 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 3:39 pm
Amother gold- to make sure the girls were in bed at night, in class by day.
I will clarify I never saw him in the dorms, but I was warned repeatedly that he does go around & make surprise visits.
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 4:15 pm
I have heard many many stories about young female teachers crossing boundaries with students. Not necessarily physical boundaries, but it can still be very damaging. Male teachers in girls schools usually know to keep their distance.
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Ravenclaw




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 4:20 pm
WindowMagic wrote:
And why do you leave your house if you might see a man - is that also inappropriate? (gasp)
The answer is no. the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Men work in girls' schools because they are qualified candidates, equal or even more so than many women. and why not? because 1 in 1000 are bad apples? better, teach your kids how to watch out for predatory behavior.


Agreed. However I disagree with all the posters here acting like male teachers can give the girls something that women can’t.
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 02 2019, 4:28 pm
amother [ Lemon ] wrote:
I am not disagreeing with you.
I am saying it is a shame that people keep saying the female teachers aren't good enough, and that's why we need men.


I know it’s kind of shocking and demoralizing that these posts are all by women about other women.
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