R' Yosef Shidler's thoughts about Lakewood. From the heart.

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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amother

Cerulean

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:33 am

why cant rechnitz give another donation if he is so well off?

naturalmom5

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:36 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

I'm curious where you get your information from?

Because I have a friend who comes from " the right crowd " - Rosh Yeshivos on both here and her husband's sides - and she had just as much trouble getting into schools as anyone else....

Duh!!!!
She was probably dirt poor....

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:39 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thats what people in the "right crowds" who have never had to worry about getting their children into a school are probably saying.

This while parents not in the "right crowds" are scrambling for ideas to get their kids into schools to avoid their kids depression and a host of other serious problems, now and later.

While others in their community are worrying about getting their kids into school, they are worrying which comforts and luxuries they can put into their homes and summer homes.

We all know that unless people scream for help, nothing changes.

What would you do to ensure that this problem gets repaired effectively?

I'm not from the right crowd, and I'm not moving to Lakewood because I know my kids would never get accepted to any school there for various reasons.

However Mr. Shidler is just wrong because there are many non yeshivish schools the vaad does support.

naturalmom5

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:40 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

What do you imagine they were doing "wrong"? (They were a typical kollel family related to all the right people).

If being in kollel and having Rosh Yeshivas on both sides is not good enough, what is the "magic criteria" you are referring to?

Money makes the world go around
The world go around
That clunky clanky sound..

Is this such a profound concept

amother

Seashell

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:41 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

Duh!!!!
She was probably dirt poor....

No I happen to know she wasn't.

So are you saying that only the very frum and the very wealthy are able to find slots in schools?

Because off the top of my head, I can't think of too many families like that.... according to you, only a small percentage of Lakewood kids should be able to find schools...

PinkFridge

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:48 am

I feel the author's pain. I don't think I could live in Lakewood but I have enough connections that I end up there periodically. As an outsider looking in, I can focus on the beauty.
And just like there's ur'eh btuv Yerushalayim, we need to think twice before saying lashon hara about EY especially, I think that this might apply to any ir Torah. And really, any Jewish community anywhere, not just ones centered around a yeshiva, so let's tread carefully in this conversation.

The thing is, he's going in a few directions. He says, the schools seem to be trying to stay pure. He also says, that Lakewood now isn't the Lakewood of Rav Aharon zt"l. So what does stay pure mean? No TV? Yeshivish? Black hat?

I'm just left a little bit confused, and discomfited enough that I probably will stop following the thread soon since it's not at all relevant to me.

amother

Navy

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:50 am

money doesnt always talk in getting kids into schools in lakewood...almost everyone has a hard time and has to push themselves in. Its basically a lack of room. Alot of the older schools have barely any slots for new kids because they are full just from siblings. And there are realtors here promoting moving to lakewood which doesnt help the already loaded schools.

Flip Flops

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:55 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

Agree. Take every family where the husband is learning... somehow they found schools for their kids. It's not a money thing. Sorry.
That being said, If there is a school that one slot left or doesn't want to accept someone, I'm not saying bribing never has helped (although it is disgusting).
Let's not portray the tzaddikim in Lakewood who try day and night to put every child into a school as money hungry villains.

amother

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:58 am

giselle wrote:

I would pay off the developers to stop building more houses. Or perhaps the government to stop allowing this.

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

If theres a will, theres a way.

In the 40s and 50s Boro Park was no mans land, very Italian. Then out of nowhere post-war, the frum population exploded. In the 60s, when Boro Park became the biggest frum area in Brooklyn, they built one big school for all. I dont think anyone was refused.

giselle

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:04 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Well said. I think I will follow your lead.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:05 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So build it. Go ahead.

leah233

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:25 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So you see the problem accurately, from the inside. With the best intentions of people in high places, many parents and children are traumatized (not only Chabad).

If you had many millions what would you do to greatly ease this problem?

I don't know if money alone can solve the problem but if I had millions of dollars to deal with this issue I would make a meeting of the heads of the more popular schools and a few other community figures and tell that I have the money to fund any realistic idea they have to alleviate this problem. They would have a lot better suggestions and ways to go about this than I can.

Based on my experience most of them would be very happy to help .Not just with talk but also with action.Including those who weren't willing to accept my children.

amother

Mauve

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:32 am

He lost me when he said the vaad was conspiring for the downfall of the school. No. Just no!
R' Teichman from BYA came in and tried to save the school and the already existing board, dean, menahal/es or whoever it was thought they can do w.o him and sent him packing. That is when I lost interst. The issue in this school ran very very deep. The author clearly missed that memo.

amother

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:32 am

leah233 wrote:

I dont see why this shouldnt be happening being that there are so many extremely wealthy people in Lakewood (and people outside of Lakewood who care deeply about this issue because they have relatives there). I dont mean simple millionaires, I mean people who have way beyond that amount of money. So wealthy that they dont have to worry about leaving money for many generations after them. They have excess.

amother

Mauve

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:45 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

A lot of people feel there are major issues with the school and that it isn't worth saving.
The people I know who left and got into bais faiga, tiferes bais yaakov and bnos esther malka. Needless to say the all feel they are better off ...

amother

Seashell

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:45 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I agree, and I have heard Rabbanim saying the same thing. I read that after the 2008 recession many complained to R Shteinman that they lost millions in the recession. R Shteinman told somebody afterwards - they still have millions left, and why don't we see the mayser from those millions and millions?

centurion

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:07 am

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

He KNEW this would be a problem before he moved there but he brushed it off.

And he got his parents to move there???

Seems unwise. Now they're doubly stuck.

Why doesnt Chabad open a cheder somewhere thereabouts?

This is a symptom of the the problem.

Why should he open a Chabad school? Why does every faction of Judaism need its own school?

amother

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:09 am

centurion wrote:

This is a symptom of the the problem.

Why should he open a Chabad school? Why does every faction of Judaism need its own school?

Centurion, I agree! The one who posted that is clearly a non-Chabad friendly Imamother speaking, as if Chabad kids will be a bad influence on their kids. Not at all. They and their kids might learn some Midos from Chabad parents and kids!

ectomorph

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:15 am

To me this reads as an anti- vaad screed. The Vaad definitely supports plenty of other schools that are not super yeshivish. And other posters have posted details that make it clear there were deep issues in the school.

amother

Lemon

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:36 am

I remember this guy from last year. He wrote a whole letter saying he couldn't get in anywhere because he was chabad and then had a little line thrown in about how he was a photographer and had inappropriate wedding pictures on instagram and the schools were afraid of that. I also don't like how he praises R' Aharon and then puts in the same sentence that the lubavitcher accepted everybody. How can he go on an online "yeshivish" forum and bash R' Aharon like that? It sounds so wrong.
As far as Lakewood schools go, I think the problem is that every school is essentially the same school so of course they end up getting ranked as best -to- worst and who wants to send to the worst? If someone would come up with a new model for a high school that would interest parents, then it wouldn't necessarily have to only attract the girls who couldn't get in anywhere.
For example, a school where the girls focus on having a marketable skill by the time they finish high school. In 9th grade they would have electives such as computer skills/programming/bookkeeping or shaitels, party planning, decorating, baking etc. Electives would be divided into 4 categories with each girl required to choose one from each category. By 10th grade, the girls would whittle their electives down to two choices, and begin more intensive training. In 11th grade the school would make arrangements with local vendors for the girls to train one day a week in a work setting. The parents would not have to pay for this because the girls already received basic training and can work capably. It would be a win-win. By 12th grade, the girls can technically be working 3 days a week, half day with their earnings going to offset their tuition. Seminary would be totally optional in such a case because a lot of girls would simply choose to go to work full time in their field in which they have already trained.
I think a school like that, which is so noticeably different from other schools would attract a lot of parents and girls from all across the spectrum of "chumras" and would open the door to the idea that each school should have something specific to attract their clientele instead of just better schools and worse schools.

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