Fancy siyums in the nine days

amother

Denim

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:08 am

allthingsblue wrote:

If it's halachically allowed, then it's obviously not a disregard for the spirit of the nine days. I think there are parameters though, and I certainly agree that over-the-top food is not in the right spirit.

There are plenty of situations where the letter of the law is one thing, and the spirit of the law is another.

egam

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:16 am

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

I agree that this seems to me creating a loophole for no good reason, and explicitly negating the spirit of the nine days. But many, including the chaf-K and Chabad, feel it's okay. To each their own. I'm just surprised that anyone feels the need to do it. The 9 days includes at least one Shabbat, which means two days that you can eat meat (Friday at night and Shabbat during the day) and one fast day when you can't eat anything. Is it so hard to abstain from beef or chicken for six days, especially nowadays when there are so many fish choices available? I don't even notice it as a hardship.

Chabad does not feel it’s ok. Yes, they do try to have a siyum every night in the night days, but without meat as it was Baal Shem Tov custom. The only places they serve meat during 9 days are the children overnight camps, because otherwise it would be quite difficult. So they have a siyum and feed kids hotdogs.

amother

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:23 am

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

If this is the only way to get people to learn Torah, its at least something. Obviously this is the level were at. In the olden times meat wasn't eaten very often, once a month if you're extremely rich maybe maybe every Shabbat. Today if we need a siyum once in the middle of the 9 days to get twice a day meat eaters through, and you get someone to sit down to learn, like I said this is the level and Hashem loves ahavas yisrael more. If you are at a higher level it shouldn't be your goal but it is what it is.

I’m not referring to a whole group of people making a siyum and celebrating with meat. If they all learned together, and they eat meat together, then you have a point.

The reality is, one person saves their siyum so the whole bungalow colony can have a mega barbecue, bring down a professional cook to bbq, and smoke fancy cuts of meat. There are different variations of it, but many bungalow colonies make a huge shebang.

It just seems so wrong.

amother

Ecru

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:38 am

I don't know how to upload an image from my phone. If someone gives me instructions I gladly will.
But I got a WhatsApp with a list of halachos for the 9 days - with sources!
2 interesting ones relevant to this topic:
1. One is not allowed to attend a siyum or simcha in the 9 days just for the purpose of eating meat or drinking wine if they do not have a relationship with the baal simcha. You can't go just because you heard about it.
2. During the week of Tisha Baav (not relevant this year) besides the baal simcha ONLY 10 men may eat meat & drink wine. The others guests are not allowed to.
Again, I have sources but don't know how to post the image

amother

Ginger

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 2:24 pm

In my little MO community, the one fleishig restaurant is hosting a siyum and the Young Israel rabbi sent an email that he cannot halachically endorse this event for the community.

ddmom

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 4:24 pm

I beleive one of the reason we don't eat meat during the 9 days is because we are not able to bring korbanos anymore.
And the reason some ppl make siyumim every night of the nine days is to allow the ppl that would anyway eat meat(at a fleishig restaurant for example!)to do it in a permissible manner. (Or in a camp where it's hard to feed hundreds of campers milchig for so long!)

ra_mom

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:44 pm

ddmom wrote:

Never heard of this! We never had fleishig in camp during the 9 days. How's that chinuch? If you don't eat it at home, camp shouldn't be serving it. I know if my daughter would have that she'd come home confused.

A group learning and finishing in the 9 days is different and the group should make a seudas mitzvah.

amother

Aubergine

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:50 pm

ra_mom wrote:

I was also shocked first time I heard about it!
Now I'm so used to hearing that it's being done in camps... Sad

momsrus

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:54 pm

ra_mom wrote:

We had it in camp 20 (gosh I’m old) years ago. We knew it was because of a siyum. My daughter has it in camp, she knows because of siyum.

amother

Pewter

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:57 pm

momsrus wrote:

We had it in camp 20 (gosh I’m old) years ago. We knew it was because of a siyum. My daughter has it in camp, she knows because of siyum.

They know it's because of a siyum of finishing what Scratching Head

All they know is that their role models are looking for loopholes in yiddishkeit.

momsrus

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 7:05 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

They know it's because of a siyum of finishing what Scratching Head

All they know is that their role models are looking for loopholes in yiddishkeit.

True

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 8:29 pm

I’m more of a “live and let live” kinda girl. But for some reason this really bothers me .
The idea of 9 days is not about no showering or laundry and not eating meat. It’s about mourning the loss of the Beim hamikdash. Meat is considered a food of chashivus so we don’t eat it. But the point of nine days isn’t to go around the system and find a reason to party and host grand bbqs with exquisite meats (even if it’s allowed)...
It’s just seems so off.
Even the extravagant 9 days dairy menus that restaurants are advertising..
Can’t we survive 9 whole days of just feeling a bit deprived and uncomfortable ??
May this Tisha Bav be celebrated in yerushalaim with mashiach! Amen!!

amother

Natural

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 8:44 pm

I ran the kitchen for a Pidyon Haben today. I asked the Rov if I was allowed to eat the fleish, and was told "NO".
The Ba'alei Simcha asked about their guests eating the fleish. Only those who washed for Hamotzi were allowed to eat the fleish.

There was even a question of who can dress in shabbos clothing! the parents and grandparents were allowed. The great grandparents asked, and were told they could also, as the ba'alei simcha would feel bad if they couldn't.

Eating meat in the 9 days is not so simple.

little neshamala

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 8:50 pm

Our Rav spoke about this recently. He stressed that one is only allowed to make a fleishig siyum if a siyum he ordinarily made would have been fleishig as well, and the only people who can participate in eating the meat are people who are that close with him and notmally invited to participate in the siyum.

Which really just seems like common sense to me.

creditcards

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:42 pm

egam wrote:

The only time I heard about this, siyum concept or know of anyone who participated was when I was in overnight camp as a kid. We had a, siyum every year one time in the nine days. I was pretty disappointed because I liked milchig better. It never accured to me that there might be something wrong with it until now on imamother.

amother

Lavender

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:54 pm

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

This!!!
I was scratching my head seeing the ads in the magazines.

creditcards

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:56 pm

ddmom wrote:

Can someone please explain what's so hard about serving milchigs for kids for so long. Kids like the milchig menu much better. My kids would skip fleishigs a whole year if I would let them.

keym

Mon, Aug 05 2019, 12:00 am

creditcards wrote:

Can someone please explain what's so hard about serving milchigs for kids for so long. Kids like the milchig menu much better. My kids would skip fleishigs a whole year if I would let them.

My kids dont get as full on milchigs. They dont like fish.
But Ive gotten heterim because my kuds have allergies to nuts, peanuts, eggs, and some othher stuff. So feeding them during the 9 days is quite challenging, whereas chicken and rice, everyone can eat, everyone is full.