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Spinoff- how many kids do u have
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 9:40 am
I am just curious based in tuition threads, are people having children irresponsibly with no way to pay tuitions? Or are most people responsible and take their finances into account. I can't understand how someone who makes say 90k a year thinks its ok to just have 7-8 kids and then gets frustrated that the schools cant educate them for free. whats wrong with having 4 kids that you can afford? it just seems very irresponsible to me.
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mig100




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 9:43 am
The title of this thread has very little to do with what u r asking.

Do u want to know how many kids others have ( just look around u if . U want to know that) Or how many others think OTHER people should have??
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amother
Emerald


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 9:43 am
there's a recent thread where people quote rabbanim as saying that finances aren't a reason to use birth control and tuition breaks aren't considered taking tzedekah.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 9:46 am
I am curious as to the general attitude of people on here with regards to birth control and finances. I strongly believe it is irresponsible to yourself and the schools to just have as many as you want, with no plan on how you will
foot the bill. meaning let the schools figure it out? or let the other people pay? why cant people have more normal sized families, and pay their own bills.
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amother
Apricot


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 9:50 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am curious as to the general attitude of people on here with regards to birth control and finances. I strongly believe it is irresponsible to yourself and the schools to just have as many as you want, with no plan on how you will
foot the bill. meaning let the schools figure it out? or let the other people pay? why cant people have more normal sized families, and pay their own bills.


Hashkafa.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 9:52 am
And here's the dichotomy.

The same schools- and Rabbonim in these communities-that are sending kids home, are also promoting the following education:

Birth control is only for dire emergencies
It's a mitzva to have as many children as possible
Finances aren't a reason to limit family size
Hashem will provide more money for each child
If you have bitachon, you shouldn't worry about money
If you limit your family size, you are lazy, selfish, or lacking in bitachon


Oh, and pay your tuition bill, or else
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amother
Beige


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 9:52 am
Who are you to decide what family size is "normal"

And no I don't believe any rav will say not to have another baby until u have tuition all figured out
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 9:53 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am curious as to the general attitude of people on here with regards to birth control and finances. I strongly believe it is irresponsible to yourself and the schools to just have as many as you want, with no plan on how you will
foot the bill. meaning let the schools figure it out? or let the other people pay? why cant people have more normal sized families, and pay their own bills.


It's interesting, because I feel strongly tempted to play devil's advocate on this thread, even though I was adamantly arguing the opposite point on the other thread.

In my opinion, if both parents are working professionals and bringing in a decent salary, it's not unreasonable to expect the school to give some sort of group rate/discount to help with tuition. For example, my parents got a deal because they had several girls in school at once, and they paid $5,500 per girl (NYC). Even when some of us graduated, they kept the same rate.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 9:54 am
amother [ Beige ] wrote:
Who are you to decide what family size is "normal"

And no I don't believe any rav will say not to have another baby until u have tuition all figured out


who are you? its common sense to realize its irresponsible to have a super large family when you cannot afford it.
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amother
Red


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 9:56 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am curious as to the general attitude of people on here with regards to birth control and finances. I strongly believe it is irresponsible to yourself and the schools to just have as many as you want, with no plan on how you will
foot the bill. meaning let the schools figure it out? or let the other people pay? why cant people have more normal sized families, and pay their own bills.


What do you consider a normal size family? Just asking so I can understand your post a bit more
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 9:57 am
amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:
And here's the dichotomy.

The same schools- and Rabbonim in these communities-that are sending kids home, are also promoting the following education:

Birth control is only for dire emergencies
It's a mitzva to have as many children as possible
Finances aren't a reason to limit family size
Hashem will provide more money for each child
If you have bitachon, you shouldn't worry about money
If you limit your family size, you are lazy, selfish, or lacking in bitachon


Oh, and pay your tuition bill, or else


that is such garbage. no one should be in a position where their kids are being sent home. and sorry but if you have no degree or stable job and tuition is minimum 8k where I live, you are going to have an emotional breakdown if sorts when your kids are sent home. dont blme other people- think before u get pregnant! can we afford this child and is there a plan of sorts. and if you cant afford tuitions how will u afford bar mitzvahs, camps and weddings etc.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 9:58 am
amother [ Red ] wrote:
What do you consider a normal size family? Just asking so I can understand your post a bit more


I would consider 4-5 normal and 6-7 and above quite large when you cannot afford it
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amother
Slategray


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 9:59 am
The mishna says don't judge others until you stand in their shoes.

Your post comes across as extremely judgemental, and that you feel entitled to dictate to others how to live their life.
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 10:00 am
I don’t like it. The key to children and Panassa is held by Hashem.

If parents feel they can emotionally and mentally raise children they should go have more. I agree that it’s not a Torah value to go on bc for financial reasons?
If you disagree please explain how much it costs to raise a child and if you make sure to have that in savings before you go off BC?

Frum schools and communities should subsidize tuition for families that need. They used to fundraise.

If this OP is the way Torah Jews would live we will soon look like Europe. No babies.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 10:04 am
simba wrote:
I don’t like it. The key to children and Panassa is held by Hashem.

If parents feel they can emotionally and mentally raise children they should go have more. I agree that it’s not a Torah value to go on bc for financial reasons?
If you disagree please explain how much it costs to raise a child and if you make sure to have that in savings before you go off BC?

Frum schools and communities should subsidize tuition for families that need. They used to fundraise.

If this OP is the way Torah Jews would live we will soon look like Europe. No babies.


This!!!
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 10:06 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I would consider 4-5 normal and 6-7 and above quite large when you cannot afford it


And I would consider 6-7 normal and above 7 quite large when you can't afford it.

Kind of arbitrary, don't you think?
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 10:07 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am curious as to the general attitude of people on here with regards to birth control and finances. I strongly believe it is irresponsible to yourself and the schools to just have as many as you want, with no plan on how you will
foot the bill. meaning let the schools figure it out? or let the other people pay? why cant people have more normal sized families, and pay their own bills.


this question is extremely judgmental. I should probably leave the thread now- as you are more interested in making a statement than getting answers.

ill just say 2 things first

1) there is a very big difference between being honest and upfront with tuition comittee and getting a break and paying ( many thousands per kid) on time

and - neglecting to pay tuition altogether

(eta: I do wonder if everyone would do the first- if schools would be able to balance their budget, pay teachers on time, and possibly give more scholorships to those who actually need)

2) a person counting on getting away their whole life never paying tuition. AND a person who is financially responsible and hits a financial difficulty due to unforseeable and/or temporary situation ( lost job/ unexpected huge expense/ illness) etc.

the most fincially responsible and hardworking people hit difficult financial times unfortunately. they should NEVER be blamed or felt guilty for it.

and there are a million other possible scenerios- hence we should NEVER JUDGE ONLY- only OURSELVES. ( apparently most are doing the opposite)

we are not held responsible for others decisions. WE ARE RESPONSIBLE For our own.


Last edited by amother on Tue, Aug 06 2019, 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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losingweight




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 10:09 am
Op your post comes across as sorely lacking Torah values. Yes we are raised on the premise that Hashem is the only provider. If you work on your Bitachon, you will clearly see yad Hashem and not worry. Not worrying doesn't mean being irresponsible. It just means a calm life knowing that I am taken care of by our tatte in himmel. Having said that, Hashem has enough money for the family of 4 and the family of 14. Bitachon makes it easier for both of them. There's no guarantee that the smaller family will have it easier financially or be happier people. I choose the larger family and bitachon.
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amother
Lime


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 10:10 am
Tuition where I live is about half of where you do, does that mean that I can have double the amount of children as you?
No, I don't make sure I have money in savings before I have my babies. I get pregnant again when I can handle another baby emotionally and physically. I want to have a large family (though I probably won't for other reasons) and don't think that school tuition should determine how many children I have.
Also, I believe that discussing other peoples family planning is the ultimate in yenta-ning.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Tue, Aug 06 2019, 10:11 am
OP, your question doesn't sound very much like in the torah ways. A person can have a great plan, lots of money, and a great job which all can be gone from one minute to the next. Yes, it's important to have a plan but don't have less kids then you want to because of this. No one knows what the future has in store for them. A family with 13 kids may be well off and a family with 3 kids may be poor. Hashem is in charge.
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