Im not looking forward to the film Unorthodox w Shira Haas

amother

Black

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 9:16 am

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

Satmar lady here.
I did. You get a GED. Not that complicated.

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

Ivy League education here bh (my Williamsburg husband, very much still chassidish)

Excellent! We now have a few Satmar graduates who have high level degrees and were able to "reach unique heights in medicine, science, tech fields, etc" while remaining full on Satmar and accepted by the community. That is fantastic! Now let them write a book about their lives and how they have been able to overcome the obstacles they faced becoming successful while still being Satmar and then we can make a movie about their lives as well. Who knows, maybe this will change things and Satmar will finally allow their students to graduate with legitimate accredited high school diplomas (although the boys can get BTL's which gives them a leg up that the girls dont get) so that we no longer have people who are tempted to go OTD just to get their degrees/education in fields other than special education.

amother

Silver

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 9:23 am

amother [ Black ] wrote:

Excellent! We now have a few Satmar graduates who have high level degrees and were able to "reach unique heights in medicine, science, tech fields, etc" while remaining full on Satmar and accepted by the community. That is fantastic! Now let them write a book about their lives and how they have been able to overcome the obstacles they faced becoming successful and then we can make a movie about their lives as well. Who knows, may this will change things and Satmar will finally allow their students to graduate with legitimate accredited high school diplomas (although the boys can get BTL's which gives them a leg up that the girls dont get) so that we no longer have people who are tempted to go OTD just to get their degrees/education in fields other than special education.

If you think these people went otd for the education, I have a bridge to sell you..,..

amother

Mint

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 9:28 am

amother [ Black ] wrote:

I know a few Satmar women who tried going to Touro but werent accepted because they didnt have a valid high school diploma (because Satmar doesnt offer regents, nor is it accredited). So how did your friends who graduated satmar high school get accepted to touro or other colleges?

My sister who graduated satmar high school in Williamsburg is going for her masters in social work now. She attends touro.
My other sister is a CPA.

In dh's family, there are two poeple with advanced degrees and another one with skill and knowledge (but a terrible spelling handicap lol) that lots of Profesionals don't have in his specific field of child development . He is sought after by top professionals and poeple from all over the jewish world consult with him.

So yeah.

I remember devora from school. She was my nieces teacher. And the principals niece..... she was the talk of school the year she left teaching....
She had a hard life.
It's sad how it all turned out

amother

Black

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 9:38 am

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

If you think these people went otd for the education, I have a bridge to sell you..,..

No and Deborah Feldman never got her degree but she did say that she was the top student in her class while others were not interested in learning and she felt restricted because of it so this will show that other Satmar people are interested in learning and do in fact get their degrees (something she didnt even accomplish despite being top student at least according to her). The boys are different because they do have high levels of learning Talmud and can get a BTL which helps them in college or graduate/law school but the girls can use positive role models who have overcome obstacles to get their degrees legitimately (by getting a GED first) and were able to "reach unique heights in medicine, science, tech fields, etc" while remaining Satmar.
But instead of taking the opportunity to write a book and do the movie that will be positive you say forget it not happening. Why complain about Deborah Feldman/ OTD people and how they present their stories if you wont do something about it yourself? Why the pushback?

amother

Silver

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 9:48 am

amother [ Black ] wrote:

I don’t feel the need to write a book or make a movie just to prove some quack is wrong.

Should I also write a book that nidda doesn’t make me feel dirty or that arranged marriages can be loving?

Do you write book and make movies every time you dont agree with someone?

amother

Black

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 10:14 am

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

I dont complain about people who write books or make movies from their perspective and how they view things. But since you or others have a problem with the movie or the books that Deborah Feldman or other OTD people do then you have the opportunity to change the narrative and write your own version and make a Kiddush Hashem. Since you choose not to then you have to live with whatever is out there even if its negative.

But maybe one day a real Satmar graduate with a legitimate college degree (after they got a ged) and a successful career who is still openly Satmar and accepted by the Satmar community will have the guts to write the book and make the movie. People are interested in this culture as it is insular so it should be a bestseller book and blockbuster movie with a positive spin on it. Cant wait.

Ravenclaw

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 4:41 pm

Ok, amother Black, I tend to be liberal most of the time, but your condescending attitude is unfair. First of all, people aren’t interested in nice happy stories without conflict and shock value. Sorry, but it’s a fact and you know it.
Second of all, what do you have against a degree in special education? Unless it’s a medical degree it’s worthless?
Sorry, but you are not as open minded and accepting of others as you would like to believe. And as amother, no less.

amother

Black

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 5:41 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

So you are saying that Satmar girls who decide to get their GED's and go to college dont have struggles and conflict? They dont have feelings about being the first in their families to go to college and having to figure out how it works? They know about gpa's, majors, financial aid, etc? What happens if they want to get married, do they tell the boy that they are in college or have a degree? Do they say this at the beshow? What happens at the beshow if they tell the boy they are in college or have a degree? Do they get jobs in the Satmar school or did the administrators follow through on their threats and refuse to hire them? Then there is the learning about s-x, shaving the head, going to mikvah, having a baby, etc.
There is so much you write about or show in a movie. Even to the point of having a reality tv show and following some Satmar girls around to see what their lives are like. Its not being condescending, its showing the world what goes on in an insular community surrounded by mystery and vilified by otd people. Not sure why you would not do it if you have the opportunity to show the world that otd people are not functional because of their own issues instead of what is really going on in the community. And yes, people are interested in knowing more about this particular community so why not make a Kiddush Hashem and show them what the truth really is instead of sitting around and complaining about how otd people portray the community?

freilich

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 6:35 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

On a different note, I found the movie, "To fill the void", trying to convey that. I liked listening to the producer being interviewed. She pretty much had this idea in mind. To portray the positive aspect of our lives. I found it a very touching film.

Ravenclaw

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 7:47 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

Honestly? I would love to. I have this dream of writing a book from the perspective of religious minorities growing up in America: a chassidish woman, and maybe an Amish woman, Muslim woman... maybe Mormon too? I just haven’t gotten around to it but I really have thought about it a lot.

Ravenclaw

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 7:51 pm

And about struggling in college...
Yeah, it’s true. But you know what else? The daughter of lawyer might struggle if she wants to pursue a life in the arts. The daughter of hippies in a commune might struggle if she wants to become a lawyer. A girl growing up in Harlem might face challenges attending college that an upper middle class girl doesn’t.
That’s life.

amother

Black

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 8:11 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

I have watched Escaping Polygamy, Amish Mafia, Breaking Amish, Return to Amish, Arranged, Sister Wives, etc.
Now I would love to see a movie or reality tv show about Satmar girls who went to Satmar school all their lives, got their GED's, go to or graduate college, while still getting married and engaged in the beshow system. I think it would make a great movie or reality tv show. And no, Ruchie Freier doesnt qualify as she graduated from Bais Yakov which is worlds away from Satmar (no matter how many imamothers will say otherwise).

Ravenclaw wrote:

Yes, many people struggle. But that is what makes it even more interesting for a Satmar girl to enter the secular, I mean forbidden world of college and succeed despite the education she got in Satmar and still remain a respected and welcome member of the Satmar community. I wonder why you are so defensive and resistant to this idea of portraying Satmar graduates in a positive light?

amother

Silver

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 8:27 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

I don’t it makes a difference where she graduated from. Her husband is a Bobover. Her kids go to bobov school.

I don’t know where you belong, but you seem to think satmar is some kind of cult.

Newsflash it’s not! I see devorah Feldman brainwashed you.

tigerwife

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 8:33 pm

The Real Deal just interviewed a woman who appears to be satmar or similar and works as an expediter running million dollar projects. She looks pretty successful at remaining true to her roots while dealing with the secular world.

ETA: I was in Touro years ago with a few girls who commuted from Williamsburg. I don’t know if this is already mainstream but it’s certainly not taboo as it used to be.

amother

Black

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 8:37 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

Ok, look I don’t have patience for these mind games. If you have ever read any of my posts you would know that I am outspoken about women’s right to drive, the importance of education and the misogyny apparent in the system.

But I don’t like the snarky way you are insinuating that all Satmar women are spineless and uneducated.

Stop putting words in my mouth I never said anything like that. I am not responsible for the way you perceive things nor do I know why you are so angry and bitter at my suggestion. I really struck a chord in you, ,didnt I? Why is that? Almost makes me wonder if what Deborah Feldman is saying was true and you just can't handle it so you attack her. But why attack me for what I said?

amother

Black

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 8:41 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

LOL. Saying that Ruchie is the same as a satmar graduate because her kids are bobov graduates is disingenuous and makes me wonder what you are trying to hide by pretending that its all the same thing. (For the record, both Bais Yakov and Bobov girls graduate with high school diplomas while Satmar girls dont so that is just one major difference as to why you cant compare them so stop generalizing the "chasidish" community.)

amother

Silver

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 8:45 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

Are you saying satmar girls can’t get into college or are you saying college is a bad place to be.

Firstly there are many satmar girls that go to college, there are ways to do it that’s not so complicating

Collage is not the norm in any chasidishe community. So no, it makes no difference where mrs frier went to school.

I’m going to say it loud and clear. The fact that Deborah Feldman went otd has nothing to do with not having a college education.