Would you find this behaviour concerning?

amother

Aquamarine

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 6:48 am

For all the people recommending evaluation and saying it can't hurt - of course it can. I was pushed to do an evaluation by the school. The agency I worked with sent me to a brain place and basically provided me with a list of the questions they would ask and what I should respond. I can't say I followed to the tee, but a lot of the questions were about normal behaviors and when I answered that my daughter was attached to an inanimate object (her blanket) and sometimes had tantrums etc. I was told she was on the "spectrum" and "mildly autistic" From there, the school told me she could only come back if she had a Seit, which she got for a year, but felt very isolated with it and didn't like having help with things she could do independently. For the next year, I switched schools, told the new school nothing about the problems we had in the previous and it was completely smooth sailing from there.

amother

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 8:18 am

The reason I would not be looking to evaluate is because I really don't have the feeling that there are underlying issues. To me as his mom, I feel that he takes a bit longer to adjust than other children and his way of coping with it is acting like a bit of a bully (he doesn't actually hit other children but will say things like I'm much stronger than you or I can hit you etc.) In his first year of Morah, no issues were brought up, it is only with this past year's Morah that she is having a hard time. On the other hand, she is very experienced and has been doing this for many years. My original feeling would be to wait and see how he adjusts to school this coming year and see how it plays out then. If there are issues, of course we will deal with it then. But on the other hand, maybe I'm missing something??

Stars

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 8:19 am

amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:

I am very confused.

Laiya

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 8:45 am

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

.
The school environment and the home environment are very very different. So while a child might have the skills to manage the home environment, he might not have the skills to manage in a classroom environment. Or vice versa. It doesn't necessarily reflect on anything beyond his skill set as compared to the demands being placed on him.

Maybe. Maybe not. Obviously school and home are different environments. OP should be asking very specific questions to find out the exact cause of the morah's concern, and what specific therapy or services the morah thinks he would benefit from, and in what way they would be beneficial.

Sometimes an experienced morah or any teacher has great insight into what a child needs. But sometimes they're off the mark. Mothers should never disregard their own instincts.

Laiya

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 8:49 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Wait. The morah thinks that a 4 yo saying I'm stronger than you, is bullying??

amother

Blue

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 9:03 am

I would guess there is more than that. I know it can be hard to hear as a parent, but as a teacher I can say there have been times I have tried to bring up concerns and parents cut me off, interrupted, or just couldn't bring themselves to listen. A few years later, these were usually the kids who were receiving intervention because once they got to an older grade, the issues were too obvious to ignore.
If this morah is good at her job (and sounds like you think so), op, ask for specifics and clarification, because I doubt that it is only saying "I am stronger than you" that makes her identify bullying behavior.
Also, what are the details about the bathroom issues? Refusal to get dressed? You need more info on these.

amother

Linen

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 9:09 am

what kind of morah is she? what is your feeling about her? is she warm and cuddly, firm but fair?
what is her style?

can you clarify what you mean when you say potty issues and issues with dressing.
potty issues as in accidents? refusing to go to the bathroom when told to? accidents on purpose?
incapable of dressing himself vs refusing to dress himself?

does the morah have an assistant? can you ask the assistant for her perspective?

There are some teachers that see problems in every normal child. and other teachers that see normal childish behaviour even within problem behaviour.

perspective is important here. and clear examples.

amother

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 9:11 am

The bathroom issues were really only at the beginning of the year, he was having lots of accidents since he didn't want to go to the bathroom by Morah. Now, it's pretty much a non-issue. He's not great at getting himself dressed at home either but the Morah finds it troubling that after swimming he will not even put on a single sock on himself... and he also needs the Morah to help him in a private room (which I don't think is a problem, he is quite insistent on getting dressed in private at home too).

urban gypsy

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 9:17 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

This seems so normal for a 4 year old! Did the Morah or you talk to him about it or try any incentive charts or something? If it's just these two things in isolation I don't see why she is so worried.

amother

Brunette

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 9:23 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My son sounds a bit like yours. He's 6 now. He has a hard time transitioning (like moving schools was really difficult for him, and it always takes him a while to get used to new morah/rebbe). I think he has kind of low self esteem which manifests itself in him being a bit more defensive and coming across like moody compared to other kids. He can act a bit like a tough kid in order to not appear weaker than the other boys, though he's definitely not a bully and usually overreacts when someone picks on him (he's actually pretty sensitive). He also is more the anxious type. None of his teachers have ever suggested he be evaluated, and I think he's just a bit more of a complicated less easy going kid than others.

If your son has been fine with other morahs before this one, then I would wait until next year and a new morah/rebbe before diving into evaluations and that sort of thing. Even if she's very experienced, that can sometimes mean more of a 'one size fits all' approach, and if that approach doesn't fit your kid, then that could be where these comments are coming from.

Edited to add - I just read your above post about not wanting to use the bathroom at the morah and being insistent on privacy to change clothing. My son is also like this. I think it's just part of the personality type. I really don't think it's indicative of anything more.

groovy1224

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 9:42 am

While I obviously can't tell you for certain that he's fine, I really don't see reason for alarm here. Some kids just need control, and when they don't feel that they have it (new environment, new morah, or when they feel under pressure) they will try and find ways to get it. Bathroom issues are a classic example. Wanting the morah to change him seems to be in line with this.

I know that now it's very popular to say 'get him evaluated, what can it hurt' but I really disagree unless someone has an actual valid concern that there are developmental issues. I live in a community comprised almost completely of young families. About 60% of these families have kids receiving services. It just doesn't make sense that ALL these kids need the services their getting. Some of them are getting them for no real reason, and it's a shame that these kids are being pulled out of school or playgroup or seeing a therapist at home when they're tired when all they really need is space and time to grow up!

It's normal for kids to have to work some things out at their own pace. If it's not interfering with his functioning and happiness and safety, I'd say wait it out, make sure to continue to empower him and make him feel secure.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Aug 08 2019, 9:46 am

Without knowing more, I would say that this behavior sounds well within the normal range of boy behavior. I'm curious to know what the other boys are like, how they treat DS, and what sort of an example they are setting. Nobody is a "bully" in a vacuum. There has to be more going on here.

Four is such a young age to be expecting anything! Back in my days, 4 year olds had fun play groups, not structured classes. They weren't supposed to do anything stressful until kindergarten, and even then the studies were light, and there was lots of creative play. I think we demand too much from kids, at much too young an age.

Remember, 4 year olds are not reliable reporters, so you have to be a bit clever to get to the truth.

DD would come home saying something like "I got in trouble for NO REASON, and it's not fair!" I'd ask her what happened before she got into trouble, and she's say "Sarah hit me, so I hit her back." She absolutely did not see cause and effect there. Events were random and unpredictable to her, and that made her anxious. Until she learned that action X leads to action Y, and consequence Z, she didn't know how to handle other kids.

Reading DS some social stories might help with him adjusting to the other kids, and the rules of the classroom. Do a little role play with him, and see if you can discover what's really happening.