Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Parenting our children
I know I'm doing it wrong. HELP!
Previous  1  2  3  4  5  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

keym




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 2:32 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
If the child were two years old or special needs I would agree with you. An 11 y.o. normal child who refuses to stop disturbing her mother after being asked nicely four times to stop is DELIBERATELY provoking her mother.

I guess if your child spat in your face and said "F. U" you would say "darling, what did I do to make you upset? Tell me and I will give you what ever you want so you won't be upset"


Or maybe even a typical developing 11 year old:
1) is unaware shes making those noises
2) is not able to stop
3) is not able to express what she needs- boredom, attention.
You seem to be attributing malice to a child. We are saying how does that help anything besides facilitate a relationship rupture.
Back to top

mommy201




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 2:39 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
If the child were two years old or special needs I would agree with you. An 11 y.o. normal child who refuses to stop disturbing her mother after being asked nicely four times to stop is DELIBERATELY provoking her mother.

I guess if your child spat in your face and said "F. U" you would say "darling, what did I do to make you upset? Tell me and I will give you what ever you want so you won't be upset"


Oh my. Your example just reminded me of a story I heard recently. Rabbi Yaakov Bender once said a story about a boy in his yeshiva who came down to him years ago after being sent out of class and said directly to his face. F. U.! Rabbi Bender did not punish the boy, but helped him calm down and gave him some food and spoke to him in a kind and gentle manner. He said today this boy is a chashuve magid shuir in lakewood. What does this story prove?

Regarding your example above, it doesnt mean that you have to give your child whatever you want but yes, teaching them to be able to express their emotion through talking and not behavior will ultimately help them be able to express themselves correctly in the future without having to resort to drastic action or behaviors.

And many times the 11 year old is still disturbing the mother and acting out because they were never empathized with when they were 2 years old and needed it. How much more so do they need the empathy when they are older. (It's easier to empathize with little kids, and more work on our end to do it when they are older) It doesnt mean that bigger kids never act out, but generally, with correct parenting it should get less as they get older, not worse.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 2:39 pm
keym wrote:
Or maybe even a typical developing 11 year old:
1) is unaware shes making those noises
2) is not able to stop
3) is not able to express what she needs- boredom, attention.
You seem to be attributing malice to a child. We are saying how does that help anything besides facilitate a relationship rupture.


If the 11 y.o. child is not Special Needs she knows she is upsetting her mother and she is able to stop.

I'm sorry, but you are raising your children to be Domestic Abusers. If a DH would do this to his wife I don't think the Moms on this thread would excuse it and say we should show the abusive husband more love and try to meet his needs better and then the abuse will stop.
Back to top

keym




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 2:45 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
If the 11 y.o. child is not Special Needs she knows she is upsetting her mother and she is able to stop.

I'm sorry, but you are raising your children to be Domestic Abusers. If a DH would do this to his wife I don't think the Moms on this thread would excuse it and say we should show the abusive husband more love and try to meet his needs better and then the abuse will stop.


There is quite a leap between making annoying, disturbing, distracting, possibly rude noises to being abusive.
I have met a truly disturbed "abusive" 11 year old who without serious therapy and intervention WILL become an abusive spouse.
Those behaviors are nowhere near what OP is dealing with.
Back to top

mommy201




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 2:46 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
If the 11 y.o. child is not Special Needs she knows she is upsetting her mother and she is able to stop.

I'm sorry, but you are raising your children to be Domestic Abusers. If a DH would do this to his wife I don't think the Moms on this thread would excuse it and say we should show the abusive husband more love and try to meet his needs better and then the abuse will stop.


Oyoy!! The only thing that raises ppl to be domestic abusers is emotionally unhealthy childhoods. A one time incident should not do it but consistent lack of stability and emotion will.
Find me someone who was yelled at and punished at as a preteen, teen and is now an emotionally healthy, calm person with no major issues. This would be a really hard find.

Today we see so many abusive spouses - like every other thread. To me that would seem as a lots of unhealthy parenting in last generation. The abusive people today is a result of very few parents practicing gentle parenting.

We dont know that the children of today will grow up to be abusive parents. I would venture to say that since so many more parents of today are focusing on the connection and relationship aspect of parenting, we will see a lot less abusive parents and spouses in the coming years.
Back to top

dankbar




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 2:48 pm
When a child is already deliberately being mechalel shabbos no, force will make it worse not better.
Its already also an after effect of maybe spiting the parents, because relationship wasnt good to begin with
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 2:52 pm
Mommy201, this is NOT a "one time incident" but a pattern of behavior by this child - per what OP wrote.
Back to top

dankbar




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 2:56 pm
Exactly, seems like a child that was constantly harshly punished for minor misdemeanors will rather lash out as adult
Back to top

mommy201




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 2:57 pm
#BestBubby. I was once at a dinner for a yeshiva for boys who were OTD and starting to make their way back. They showed a video of what they do for the boys, how they learn, and all the extracurricular. The whole video was based on showing the boys love and no judgement. No yelling or punishing if they weren't wearing a yarmulke or doing something inappropriate. Why do you think the yeshiva and rebbeim were so accepting of the boys the way they were and not punishing like they should be doing? Because, this was the way to get the boys back on the derech. By showing them love an acceptance. Would they bother even coming to yeshiva if all they got was telling off and who knows what?
This got me thinking, why do we punish and yell at our kids, only to have go OTD and then only show them love and acceptance to get them to come back. Why dont we just avoid the punishment and only always show them love, acceptance with direction and just avoid this to begin with!
Back to top

mommy201




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 3:00 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Mommy201, this is NOT a "one time incident" but a pattern of behavior by this child - per what OP wrote.


Maybe its a pattern of behavior, but even if punishment stop the behavior, which is not guaranteed at all, it is not teaching the child the correct behavior and if the child's needs are not being met, they will find other unhealthy ways to continue to let their feelings out.
Back to top

dankbar




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 3:05 pm
you also need to have realistic expectations of the child. If child is off from school for all of summer & all she sees her mom glued to computer & not tending to her then it's very normal for her to be resentful & bored.

If mom is keeping child busy & taking a little work break, then yes child is expected not tp interrupt
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 3:09 pm
Laiya wrote:
Obviously this wasn't thought out, it was something OP said in frustration in the moment.

Does taking away the toy help her dd understand her what she did wrong? Does it help OP give her dd the ability to choose differently next time? Does it send the message that her mother loves her no matter what she does, and believes she is capable of change? Imho, no.

Punishment only fosters resentment within the relationship, and if anything, creates a feeling in the dc of having "paid" for her mistake, and she's now free to repeat as she has a clean slate.


Punishment teaches there are consequences. In ABA therapy "unishment" is described as something that will cause a behavior to decrease. ABA does say that when punishment is implemented the child will often escalate the behavior to "prove" that punishment is not working, they don't care, etc. But if punishment is applied consistently the behavior will deminish.

All our laws are based on punishment. If the government did not punish there would be rampant crime and murder. We could not live in a society where there was no laws and no punishment.
Back to top

dankbar




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 3:10 pm
All the moms that keep saying that daycamp is luxury, yes moms that work are being proactive by sending kids to daycamp as not to get to such scenarios. Yes of course, child needs to be respectful, but kids are not interested in adult chores, they want to do what kids their age are doing. If she is not attending daycamp with kids her age, something else has to be in place
Back to top

Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 3:29 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
If the child were two years old or special needs I would agree with you. An 11 y.o. normal child who refuses to stop disturbing her mother after being asked nicely four times to stop is DELIBERATELY provoking her mother.

I guess if your child spat in your face and said "F. U" you would say "darling, what did I do to make you upset? Tell me and I will give you what ever you want so you won't be upset"


So it sounds like you do not believe there is a mitzvah of dlz? Sometimes, it's ok to be certain we know someone's intent?
Back to top

Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 3:31 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
If the child were two years old or special needs I would agree with you. An 11 y.o. normal child who refuses to stop disturbing her mother after being asked nicely four times to stop is DELIBERATELY provoking her mother.

I guess if your child spat in your face and said "F. U" you would say "darling, what did I do to make you upset? Tell me and I will give you what ever you want so you won't be upset"


You're creating a straw man here, not sure if it's intentional. Not taking away a toy, does not mean saying Darling etc., and making noise while parent is working is not the same thing as cursing a parent. No one here said or implied anything like that.
Back to top

mommy201




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 3:44 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Punishment teaches there are consequences. In ABA therapy "unishment" is described as something that will cause a behavior to decrease. ABA does say that when punishment is implemented the child will often escalate the behavior to "prove" that punishment is not working, they don't care, etc. But if punishment is applied consistently the behavior will deminish.

All our laws are based on punishment. If the government did not punish there would be rampant crime and murder. We could not live in a society where there was no laws and no punishment.


There was actually an ABA therapist who took the same parenting course as me and now does not do ABA at all anymore because it is not in sync with what she believes. Just because there are other methods it doesn’t mean that they are all right.

And ABA, is for sure not a Torah based concept.

And regarding laws of America, that definitely is not proof of anything we should be copying. Since when is Torah based on laws of our country?

If you are actually using American laws as proof, then I would go further to say other things.

America’s rate for prisoners returning to prison is very High compared to other countries where there are programs within the prison that actually help the people move on and not just get punished by being sent to prison and then going out and repeating another crime and going to prison again. Most ppl are not improving from getting punished.

On another note there was a study done on ppl that end up in prison and it showed that their brain part that holds maturity and connection was very small. Like these 25-40 year old ppl going to prison were on the emotional maturity level of a 5 year old. And the study concluded that most of these ppl came from abusive or dysfunctional homes where they received no emotional regulation and connection.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 3:52 pm
Mommy201: And the study concluded that most of these ppl came from abusive or dysfunctional homes where they received no emotional regulation and connection.

And you think that punishment = abuse? That taking away a toy from an 11 y.o. who continued disturbinga parent after being asked four times to stop is ""dysfunction"?
Back to top

mommy201




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 3:59 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Mommy201: And the study concluded that most of these ppl came from abusive or dysfunctional homes where they received no emotional regulation and connection.

And you think that punishment = abuse? That taking away a toy from an 11 y.o. who continued disturbinga parent after being asked four times to stop is ""dysfunction"?


In a way yes. Abuse is a misuse of control/power. No I don’t think that a few times taking away things from a child or a once in a while punishment will mess up a child long term and is considered abuse. Abuse in consistently doing these things and not leaving no room for a child to express themselves emotionally.
Back to top

amother
Red


 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 4:09 pm
I can totally relate. Its hard when a 10 year old child cries and screams and its hard to be at a loss what to do. There are many good idea on this post. I liked the idea of a game. The problem is if the child wants to do something else. I could try taking out the game getting it ready setting it up so it looks fun. I would be curious to see if that works.
Back to top

amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Thu, Aug 15 2019, 5:13 pm
Some thoughts about the op,
I would check if this child has age appropriate communication skills. Sounds like she has a very hard time expressing herself, issues with cause and effect, and self regulation. Crying for an hr is not regular for a girl her age.
On to op now,
Usually giving warnings and natural consequences are the best way to go. Such as please stop or you will have to leave. Then you stop what you are doing and order her to leave the room for 10 minutes until you are done. If she doesnt listen then you leave the room. Finish in a room with a lock.
This is a great opportunity to model effective communication. About how she is making you feel with her behaviors, about how much time you need to finish the task, ask her what she would like from you when you are done.
Back to top
Page 4 of 5 Previous  1  2  3  4  5  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Did I do the wrong thing?
by amother
12 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 3:07 pm View last post
Do you know what your sons are doing tonight?
by amother
119 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 1:17 pm View last post
My baby is "too good"-is there something wrong or am I just
by amother
18 Tue, Mar 12 2024, 7:24 am View last post
Any tzedakah organizations doing shalach manos this year?
by amother
4 Tue, Mar 05 2024, 6:10 pm View last post
Frustration at doing it all.
by amother
6 Wed, Feb 28 2024, 10:59 pm View last post