A bunch of questions

amother

Sun, Aug 11 2019, 7:17 pm

I hope one day we’ll make Aliyah. I don’t have any clue how it could be a practical plan for us, but I’m dreaming about it a lot today, on Tisha b’Av, so please indulge me if you have answers to these pie in the sky questions:

1. How much does it cost to live in the Old City, and what do most people do there, professionally? What type of neighborhood is it (languages spoken, hashkafa, etc.)?

2. What about other neighborhood in Yerushalayim? I dream of living within the Torah borders of Yerushalayim. What neighborhoods are hashkafically similar to American yeshivish/modern yeshivish, and English speaking? What are the high and low end costs of housing and schools?

3. Our Hebrew skills are eh. We’d obviously work on it and we could probably bump up our skills enough to get by, but it would be virtually impossible for us to work in a Hebrew speaking setting. What are some possible English speaking jobs we could get? If we started prepping early, what career fields are in demand?

4. Outside of Yerushalayim I’m sure there are also plenty of communities where we’d fit in. What are some places we might look? We’re an American yeshivish, English-speaking family with young kids. Obviously cost is daunting, so what are some lower cost areas, comparatively?

amother

Red

Sun, Aug 11 2019, 7:44 pm

Lucky you found an Israeli with insomnia!

The Old City is fairly expensive, I think. It's also not very family friendly. You obviously can't drive a car right up to the door of your house. Can you live with walking from the parking lot to your house in the rain? There's a substantial charedi and English speaking presence. Jobs are varied.

For American yeshivish Anglos, Ramat Beit Shemesh is the obvious choice. There are plenty of other places that might work, but I would say you should definitely come and check out neighborhoods in person. Jerusalem tends to be pricey. The unfortunate truth is that the more English speaking the neighborhood, the more expensive it's likely to be.

A lot depends on your flexibility. Do you need Skippy peanut butter or can you adapt to Israeli brands? If you really don't speak Hebrew, you'll be best off in a community with a large number of olim. They'll have the best services for your kids, and you'll have peers who have been through the aliyah experience.

Advice to all potential olim is to come with a bit of a financial cushion so you can acclimate and find jobs without too much stress. In terms of working in English, your best bets are telecommuting to an American job, working in what Israelis call high tech (anything from programming to development to marketing) or providing services to English speakers.

It's great you're planning to come when the kids are still young.

I hope I'm not discouraging you. We love living here. But it's a big adjustment. Preparation is key.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 4:26 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

1. How much does it cost to live in the Old City, and what do most people do there, professionally? What type of neighborhood is it (languages spoken, hashkafa, etc.)?

2. What about other neighborhood in Yerushalayim? I dream of living within the Torah borders of Yerushalayim. What neighborhoods are hashkafically similar to American yeshivish/modern yeshivish, and English speaking? What are the high and low end costs of housing and schools?

3. Our Hebrew skills are eh. We’d obviously work on it and we could probably bump up our skills enough to get by, but it would be virtually impossible for us to work in a Hebrew speaking setting. What are some possible English speaking jobs we could get? If we started prepping early, what career fields are in demand?

4. Outside of Yerushalayim I’m sure there are also plenty of communities where we’d fit in. What are some places we might look? We’re an American yeshivish, English-speaking family with young kids. Obviously cost is daunting, so what are some lower cost areas, comparatively?

1. The old city has people like everywhere else. There are people who do every single thing under the sun. Some work in the old city and others leave the old city and go into town and Im sure there are some people who travel to work as well.
Languages spoken in the old city are probably many as you have many types of people, from all over, living there. It is very expensive and as Ive heard, hard to find new rentals.
2. In a word, Yrushaliyim is expensive.
3. In terms of working in english, that is the luck of the draw really. It depends on what you do now. You would look for jobs on english job boards and go from there.
4. RBS aleph sounds perfect for you. In jerusalem probably ramat eshkol / arzei habira areas would be great, but that depends on your age as your kids age as well (thats a younger neighborhood).

rivkam

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 4:35 am

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

My husband wants to live in Tzefat (spiritual, warm) and I want to live in Petach Tikva (professional, chareidi but work). How can we compromise?

The issue with living up north in general is work. In the center if israel you'll have a much easier time to find work. If your dh specifically wants a warm and spiritual community but you want to be close to job prospects, you could live in a yeshuv in the shomron area. It is a commute to tel aviv let's say, but it is doable.

amother

Lavender

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 4:58 am

I really, really encourage you not to give up on Hebrew, especially before you even have gotten here. A lot of olim, Americans in particular, underestimate the importance of learning Hebrew. It can be very limiting both socially and professionally not to speak Hebrew. Especially in helping your children to integrate into Israeli society. I've seen many people 'get by' without Hebrew, but it's not a good situation to be in if you can't read your own gas bill, sort your own bureaucratic issues and simply have a chat with someone on the bus.

Edit: I knew a woman who lived in the Old City (until her husband was killed in a terrorist attack there, HYD) and it's extremely expensive to buy there and when you live there it's practically very difficult to get furniture and things like washing machines etc through those crazy cobbly streets. She also said that practically speaking, doing groceries was impossible (one of the reasons she left to live on a yishuv). It's a LOT of shlepping. And not a quiet place to live - basically in the middle of tourist central.

rivkam

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 5:46 am

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

I agree about the Hebrew. It takes years to learn but it completely changes your experience of living in Israel. Even if you don't need it for your job, it makes life in Israel so much easier.

ora_43

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 5:55 am

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

My husband wants to live in Tzefat (spiritual, warm) and I want to live in Petach Tikva (professional, chareidi but work). How can we compromise?

Find a third option.

Do you need to be in the central district for work?

Has your husband actually lived in Tzfat? What is it he likes about Tzfat? Eg does he love the weather and the size of the town, or is it more about the warm community or the history? (trying to think what might be a good 'substitute').

ora_43

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 6:05 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

2. What about other neighborhood in Yerushalayim? I dream of living within the Torah borders of Yerushalayim. What neighborhoods are hashkafically similar to American yeshivish/modern yeshivish, and English speaking? What are the high and low end costs of housing and schools?

Ramot and Ramat Sharet both have a lot of English speakers (Ramot also has areas that are heavily not English speaking, it really depends where).

In general Jerusalem has a lot of English speakers. Most neighborhoods have at least a small English speaking community.

Quote:

3. Our Hebrew skills are eh. We’d obviously work on it and we could probably bump up our skills enough to get by, but it would be virtually impossible for us to work in a Hebrew speaking setting. What are some possible English speaking jobs we could get? If we started prepping early, what career fields are in demand?

Like others said, Hebrew is very important.

But there are a lot of English speaking jobs. Teaching English, customer service to overseas, content writing, technical writing, editing (most of the demand is in high tech for these three). Plus more technical jobs like computer programming where your Hebrew skills matter a lot less. In areas with a lot of English speakers, even language-heavy jobs like therapy can be done in English.

Also, not all Hebrew-speaking-setting jobs require a ton of Hebrew skills. Like, you could be a math tutor or a cook or work in a daycare with so-so Hebrew. Some jobs require very high-level Hebrew (eg secretarial work in your average Israeli office) but many don't.

Re: what you should choose - it really depends what you like and what you're good at. Also consider the hours, eg, if you want to be home in the afternoons, maybe look into teaching or content writing rather than computer programming.

amother

Navy

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 6:08 am

ora_43 wrote:

Yes, we need to commute to Tel Aviv. And I have family in PT, but they're very modern so my husband isn't thrilled.

Warm community and history. He's never been in tzefat for more than a few hours.

LovesHashem

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 6:37 am

rivkam wrote:

There is work all over the country. What exactly do you think you can only find work in RBS or Yerusahlayim? I know plenty of people in this area that actually need to commute to the south or north FOR work.

There's english speaking communities in many place in the country. There's in the central area RBS, Yerushalayim, Beitar, Neveh Yaakov, Ramot, and all over the country: Tiveriah, Ra'anana, Modin Elite, Ashdod, etc.

Every city has some sort of english speaking community, it's just not big.

ora_43

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 6:48 am

LovesHashem wrote:

This, but it really depends on the field.

It's much much easier to find work in hi-tech or business (marketing, content writing, etc) in general in Tel Aviv. There is some work in Haifa and Jerusalem, too, but it's harder to find. Ditto for research.

OTOH if you're a social worker, teacher, nurse, or probably a few other things I'm not thinking of, it tends to be a lot easier to find work in the north or south. Living in the north I sometimes get random people approaching me in the street and offering me tutoring jobs when they hear me speaking English.

amother

Red

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 7:05 am

Better to vacation in Tzefat than to live there. The Anglo population is small, municipal services are poor, and the job market is scarce.

I understand the spiritual high of Tzfat or the Old City. But living in Israel is not some kind of spiritual Disney World. The beauty and the challenge of living here is that on my commute to work, I pass places mentioned in Tanach. But I still have to deal with being in traffic with the descendants of Avraham Avinu. We pay mortgages, take kids to the dentist, and live ordinary lives. We have the extraordinary privilege to do these things in the land that Hashem promised us. We live the prophecies of the ingathering of the exiles and the rebirth of the land. We live real lives
We're not wide-eyed seminary girls.

amother

Oak

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 7:19 am

LovesHashem wrote:

The job market in Tzfat is bad. Young people leave the city all the time in search of work.
If you have jobs there, then yes it's much cheaper to live there, and the community is warm. But Tzfat also attracts a lot of fringe, not mainstream people; dont know how you feel about that.
It's also a very poor city. Because the housing is cheap, people without money (especially in the haredi sector) Messed there during the last decade.
Still, cant beat its fresh air and views.

LovesHashem

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 7:23 am

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

You do all know Tzfas is not the entire north.
There is Karmiel, Carrmel, Tveriah, Chaifa, Herzliya, Netanya, Acco, Katzrin just to name a few other place off the top of my head.

I lived in the north for some time. It's definitely doable Smile

amother

Oak

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 7:32 am

LovesHashem wrote:

I lived there for 15 years.
Not many jobs there.
I dont understand your list. Herzilya and Netanya are not in the north.
Katzrin is a very long drive, and I doubt there are jobs there. Tverya is a struggling development town, doubt they have a big job market.

ora_43

Mon, Aug 12 2019, 12:29 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

Yes, we need to commute to Tel Aviv. And I have family in PT, but they're very modern so my husband isn't thrilled.

Warm community and history. He's never been in tzefat for more than a few hours.

In that case, if he's at all willing to try PT for a year I really recommend it. The people I know there are lovely. And sometimes it's possible to find a warm community in a large city.

I get why Tzfat looks more appealing at first, it looks way more appealing to me, too. There's a reason that lots of people vacation in Tzfat and nobody vacations in Petach Tikva. But as a place to actually live every day, I think PT will be a pleasant surprise. (And Tzfat would be a real struggle. Like others said it has very few job opportunities and the city doesn't have many resources.)

And if not, there are smaller communities that are within commuting distance to the merkaz. I think someone already mentioned yishuvim in the Shomron. Another option might be smaller communities on the train line (depending where you work in Tel Aviv).