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Lebanon and Jordan

 
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Aug 12 2019, 10:21 pm
Has anyone here been to either of these places recently? I could go for work, but could also pass the trip along to someone else. I'm looking to get some information on accommodations and how you felt as a Western Jew overall?
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amother




Jetblack


Post  Mon, Aug 12 2019, 10:32 pm
In some Arab countries, they won't allow people in who have an Israeli stamp on their passport. I think Jordan should be ok, I don't know about lebanon. I know someone who had to get his passport expunged before being able to join a business trip in Malaysia (I think) because he had visited Israel in the past.
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Aug 12 2019, 10:41 pm
Israel no longer stamps passports for this reason, so that is not a concern. Interestingly enough, the last time I was London they also did not stamp my passport and customs was faster than the US - go figure.
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Mayflower




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 2:29 am
Following - would like to go to Petra in the winter and I'm wondering if it's safe for Jews (who can be identified as such).
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amother




Ruby


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 2:51 am
Just out of curiosity - why travel to these places? Why not go to Israel if already making such a long journey? I can't imagine Lebanon being the best place for a kosher meal or a Beit Chabad!
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Mayflower




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 3:02 am
amother [ Ruby ] wrote:
Just out of curiosity - why travel to these places? Why not go to Israel if already making such a long journey? I can't imagine Lebanon being the best place for a kosher meal or a Beit Chabad!

OP indicated she would go for work.

I would not be going for the kosher meal - that I can find in my own kitchen.

People like to expand their horizons. Explore the wonderful world Hashem created. There's so much magnificent beauty to be found all over the world, even in places that have no Beit Chabad! *gasp*
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 3:02 am
amother [ Ruby ] wrote:
Just out of curiosity - why travel to these places? Why not go to Israel if already making such a long journey? I can't imagine Lebanon being the best place for a kosher meal or a Beit Chabad!


She said she was going for work.

I would be curious to go, but I'd do everything I could to blend in with the locals.
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 3:04 am
Jordan: so long as you bribe everyone , the accommodations are supposed to be lovely.

I can't imagine Lebanon is very different - though Hezbollah is in full force in South Lebanon.
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amother




Ruby


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 3:23 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
I would be curious to go, but I'd do everything I could to blend in with the locals.


I'm super ginger and pale, so I'd never get away with trying to blend in with the locals.
Although back in the day I did succeed in getting into the Dome of the Rock disguised as an Arab guy's wife...!!! Oy. Now I know the fully halachic repercussions of it, I feel rather bad.
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amother




Ruby


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 3:55 am
Rappel wrote:
Jordan: so long as you bribe everyone , the accommodations are supposed to be lovely.

In the US we call this 'tipping' lol! Very Happy

The one and only time I stayed in an Arab run hostel (in the Old City of Jerusalem) I had an extremely frightening experience. It was one of those rooms with multiple beds but I was the only one there until, in the early hours of the morning, 4 Arab men walked into the room and stood around my bed smiling at me. I started screaming and becoming hysterical (pre-religious times so I was minimally dressed). I then remembered that Arabs there are very afraid of 'magavnikim' (border police) and I started to scream at them that I was going to bring some magavnikim and they walked out. Later found out the owner of the hostel was among those who entered Sad
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 5:01 am
amother [ Ruby ] wrote:
In the US we call this 'tipping' lol! Very Happy

The one and only time I stayed in an Arab run hostel (in the Old City of Jerusalem) I had an extremely frightening experience. It was one of those rooms with multiple beds but I was the only one there until, in the early hours of the morning, 4 Arab men walked into the room and stood around my bed smiling at me. I started screaming and becoming hysterical (pre-religious times so I was minimally dressed). I then remembered that Arabs there are very afraid of 'magavnikim' (border police) and I started to scream at them that I was going to bring some magavnikim and they walked out. Later found out the owner of the hostel was among those who entered Sad


In Jordan, the tips usually exceed the actual cost of your trip. XD

That's terrifying. I'm so glad you kept your head.
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 5:05 am
There is an Israeli Foreign Ministry travel advisory against travel to Jordan for Israelis, because of terror threats but also because of the general anti-Israeli sentiment among a good portion of the Jordanian population.
Regarding Lebanon, terror organizations operate freely and openly there. It is illegal for Israelis to set foot in Lebanon, for obvious reasons.
As for Jews who are not Israeli but recognizably Jewish - use your own judgement.
Personally I would feel extremely uncomfortable in Lebanon - actually I would no go at all.
I might go to Jordan but for work only or maybe just a day trip from Eilat to Petra. I think I would be too wary and on edge to enjoy a vacation there at this time. My father's friends were there recently and were harrassed at the border over possessing tefillin.
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BadTichelDay




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 5:50 am
etky wrote:
There is an Israeli Foreign Ministry travel advisory against travel to Jordan for Israelis, because of terror threats but also because of the general anti-Israeli sentiment among a good portion of the Jordanian population.
Regarding Lebanon, terror organizations operate freely and openly there. It is illegal for Israelis to set foot in Lebanon, for obvious reasons.
As for Jews who are not Israeli but recognizably Jewish - use your own judgement.
Personally I would feel extremely uncomfortable in Lebanon - actually I would no go at all.
I might go to Jordan but for work only or maybe just a day trip from Eilat to Petra. I think I would be too wary and on edge to enjoy a vacation there at this time. My father's friends were there recently and were harrassed at the border over possessing tefillin.


This.
Israeli and other Jewish tourists still visit Jordan - it may turn out unfriendly, but it is considered one of the more stable and functioning Arab states.
Some Jews recently tried to daven at Aharon HaCohen's tomb which is "illegal" and according ro Arutz 7 led to a minor storm in the Jordanian parliament and an enquiry. So if you just work there as a religious looking Jew - idk, probably not very dangerous if you are in a protected environment, but you'll probably encounter some hostility. If you go off on your own, it might turn dangerous.

Lebanon: politically unstable, volatile. Half of the country is under the control of Hizbollah who are a very capable terror organization that hates Israelis, other Jews and Westerners in general. It is not the only terror group operating in the country. The border to Syria has seen some spill over from the civil war. Westerners have been kidnapped in Lebanon and other countries in the region before and not all survived the experience. Being simultaneously a Westerner and a Jew would make one an especially valuable "asset" to some groups, I'd think. Personally, I wouldn't risk it.
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 12:26 pm
Has anyone here recently traveled to Lebanon? I'm wondering if staying in a major city is actually a concern. I don't think that hezbollah has any control there, but I'm wondering how "stable" it is in the big cities.

I've traveled to other Middle Eastern countries (Qatar and the UAE), but they were all considered Western safe and friendly. DH has previously been to Jordan (as well as other Middle Eastern countries) and said he would go back, but that he would not go to Lebanon.

That being said, he said going to Lebanon would be my call. It does not make sense to send two people to these countries, as it makes more sense one person should do both in a single shot. Just trying to determine if it is really safe because, while it would be best for either my husband or me to go, it's not worth it if it is dangerous.
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amother




Ecru


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 12:32 pm
nchr wrote:
Has anyone here recently traveled to Lebanon? I'm wondering if staying in a major city is actually a concern. I don't think that hezbollah has any control there, but I'm wondering how "stable" it is in the big cities.

I've traveled to other Middle Eastern countries (Qatar and the UAE), but they were all considered Western safe and friendly. DH has previously been to Jordan (as well as other Middle Eastern countries) and said he would go back, but that he would not go to Lebanon.

That being said, he said going to Lebanon would be my call. It does not make sense to send two people to these countries, as it makes more sense one person should do both in a single shot. Just trying to determine if it is really safe because, while it would be best for either my husband or me to go, it's not worth it if it is dangerous.


Are you just going to Beirut?
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 12:37 pm
amother [ Ecru ] wrote:
Are you just going to Beirut?


Sidon.
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 12:59 pm
nchr wrote:
Sidon.


I doubt that many imamothers have been to Southern Lebanon recently.
Maybe you can try asking on forums that deal with travel to the Middle East.
We really can't tell you whether you should go or not especially since we do not know how important it is for you personally to make the trip and what is at stake if you don't.
Taking the Israeli travel advisory and those of other countries (e.g. US and UK) as a cue, my gut feeling is that if you don't really have to go to Southern Lebanon then don't.
BTW there is Hamas in Sidon too.
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amother




Ecru


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 1:04 pm
nchr wrote:
Sidon.


Looks lovely.

Maybe this would help? Doesn't look like Sidon is considered problematic. Getting there would worry me.

https://travel.gc.ca/destinations/lebanon
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sky




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 1:06 pm
I think business and vacation are different.

I don’t understand why you would go on vacation to spend money and support countries that support terroism. Especially Lebanon. To me it feels like just donate to terrorist organizations. There are so many beautiful countries that aren’t trying to blow up Jews.
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simcha2




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 13 2019, 3:20 pm
It's been a few years since I read in Jordan. Petra and Jerash were really beautiful. Definitely didn't shout that I was Jewish!
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