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DD "needs" non mommy time
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happymom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 06 2008, 10:50 am
Gr, that was so nice, thanks for the compliment!

Quote:
This is the "sanctamonious", "talking down-to-us" attitude I am talking about. You have not met every baby on the planet. You do not know what someone else's baby needs


Im sorry you feel I am talking down I didnt mean it that way at all. You can believe something diff if youd like. it is my opinuion that babies are better off with thier mothers and that noone can love a baby more then its mother. its my opinion and I believe that when a baby is with the mother for a long period of time (for me its till at least two aor two and a half depending when the child is really ready for school, but yes it depends and can be diff of course for a diff child) the child learns good self esteem, and good things. they feel more secure and trusting. (I am talkinbg about a non abusve non neglectful situation of course in which a baby can thrive at home) my point about the seperation anxiety was that I know some ppl who get frustrated at thier "stubborn" babies who "refuse" to go to the babysitter at eight months to a year and cry..... I have heard from them that they feel the baby shouldnt be spoiled and needs to learn to go to a babysitter. It is my opinion that babies at that age should never be forced to go to a babysitter (I am not talking about a rare emergency) against thier will, because its not that they are beings "brats" its that they are not READY to seperate from the mother, and its a stage, and its OK. thats all. if your baby is happy in daycare, and she loves it, and you feel thats whats best for her, I dont know the situation and I dont know your baby, And I dont know whats good for your familu, this is just what I believe in general...
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Seraph




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 06 2008, 10:51 am
Starhavah wrote:
happymom wrote:
qeenb, a baby at eight and nine months has seperation anxiety and is NOT READY to be away from thier mother, and that is why they scream when left.

saying one can send a baby to a babysitter at a young age to get used to it is to me saying one should fast when young to get used to fasting when older.

a baby needs and wants its mother. just because they have no choice and realize there is no point in crying so they stop, doesnt mean it wont affect them in a negative way in the long run!


Happy Mom,

This is the "sanctamonious", "talking down-to-us" attitude I am talking about. You have not met every baby on the planet. You do not know what someone else's baby needs. Like I said, my 10.5 month loved day care. As soon as we arrived she crawled and toddled right to the door. She never screamed and was a very happy baby. She was happy at home too. I knew lots of 8-12 months old babies who did not scream all day when their folks left them at day care. Nor was it that they realized they had no choice in the matter. Some babies enjoy being with other babies and bond well with a variety of adults. If your child is in that catagory then you have child who will do well in day care. Nor do you know that it will effect them negatively in the long run. There maybe some child it does effect negatively in the long run, there are children I have seen who can't stop crying in kindergarten because Mommy isn't there. Many of them have been negatively effected by never being away from mommy, but that does not mean that all children with SAHM suffer from it, only a small percentage and I belive and my experience as both a teacher and a mom is that the number of children who suffer negative consequences from day care is also small.

Star Havah

Starhavah, theres a difference between putting your baby in day care from 10.5 mos bec you needing to work and ur baby loving it; vs putting a 6 m old in daycare, who doesnt like it, full time; bec u need non baby time and u think ur baby needs to experience the harsh cruel world at a young age.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 07 2008, 11:43 am
News flash, apparently I'm making her into a "vilde chaye" for not "socializing" her. From a lady with 7 kids, who is "very pro daycare". She "didn't dare" telling me, so she thought it would be good to warn my parents... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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GAMZu




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 07 2008, 11:24 pm
Nebuch, poor Mati... Don't tell me you don't let her stay out all night drinking with her boyfriends, either??
What are you turning her into, you overbearing mother, you? Twisted Evil
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raizy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 09 2008, 9:41 pm
ruchel and her kids are not "vilde chayas"

well I was once in the park and my then 2 yr old throw a temper tantrum that she wants to go on a swing but the swing should be turned till it was very high . and I said no. .... it was almost bedtime so u can imagine the temper tantrum that she threw. well this mother then told me that I dont know how to educate my children and she told me to go to parenting class.

well low and behold.... a few yrs later I had "her" darling son in my playgroup... now the tables were turned. \ that son was an angel in my playgroup but a "vilde chaya " his mothers words not mine. at home.


pple always know what to say about the "other child " but they think that for their own child its o.k. they always thing how the other child is suppose to act. talk . walk . play. interact. etc.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 10 2008, 6:45 am
lol!!
in the same style, yesterday a shop lady saw my dd throwing her pacifier several times, and told me I should show her who the boss is by "hitting more". I told her I don't hit a baby, and she was Rolling Eyes
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gryp




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 10 2008, 12:58 pm
Ruchel, I'm starting to think you live on Mars. Twisted Evil
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GAMZu




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 13 2008, 1:07 am
Ruchel wrote:
lol!!
in the same style, yesterday a shop lady saw my dd throwing her pacifier several times, and told me I should show her who the boss is by "hitting more". I told her I don't hit a baby, and she was Rolling Eyes


You see, if it was me, I would've thrown the pacifier at that lady. Twisted Evil
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 13 2008, 2:20 pm
LOOOOL
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 16 2008, 10:12 am
VENT AHEAD


So... we saw another ped, a new one, to get a neutral opinion...
She said that:

-dd is adorable and very advanced (keyn ayn hore) BUT horribly spoiled, she makes tanthrums and yells when I'm not in sight or not interacting with her. It's not a need, but a WANT.

All this comes from because I am with her all day, which is not a "normal situation". When I told her it's normal since I'm at home, she told me sahm put their kids in daycare a few days a week or half day every day, generally. Because they don't want clingy babies, and want time for themselves.


-she said I'm obsessed with mothering, so I'm limiting myself. I told her I was writing my master thesis, and she said at least it was something good for me I was doing, and not just babybabybabybaby. But she told me I should go out to write it at the university, or even take a part time job, since I am not able to put some distance with dd by putting her in daycare sometimes.


-she said it's my fault if my pregnancy brain isn't going away, I was an "intellectual" before birth, and now I'm a "housewife" and my brain adapted. I won't get back my former state if I stay on the housewife level. (can't believe someone would say that). I told her my mother, with a PhD, stayed at home for me, and didn't get it, but she answered it's worse for "young girls" (in France I'm considered almost a case -the average first time birth is at 30).

-now that dh has heard that, he says it would be better to put dd in daycare part time so we would have more time just us (he doesn't work).
He doesn't get why I would be stressed about not knowing what happens in day care. But the idea gives me stomach aches.

-My dad is obsessed about my thesis and that I need to finish it with the highest grade possible (basically what my dictionary translates as "valedictorian"). He thinks it would be too unfair if "some [gentile]" was getting it, and that I would regret not working more (which is true). He says if the doctor thinks I'll go back to normal with dd in daycare, I must do it.

- My mom also said we need dd in daycare for reason above, until I reminded her she didn't do it for me... so now she kinda supports me, but she says at least I must go with her to a "mommy and me" type thing, so she starts seeing other people and being less clingy and spoiled.

-last but not least... apparently my fear to leave dd alone in a daycare is bordering on not normal, and "I may need therapy" because I'm too attached and so is dd (in reaction).


any chizuk, ideas, help or whatever??
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Pickle Lady




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 16 2008, 10:29 am
Personally Ruchel you seem like a nice person online and I hope you don't take what I write below personally, so please don't.

Firstly your ped was giving her personaly opinion not a medical one. So don't think its the word of G-d just because she is a doctor.

Second you and your family are making a huge deal about something so majorly minor. Speding time with your child when they are young is one thing. Obsessing and constantly telling your child that they are the smartest and most beautiful all the time is more damaging.

Truthfully by american standards the fact that you live at home and haven't even moved out of your bedroom and you are married with a kid to many here in the US is a problem bigtime. The only time I have heard about it is when a couple can't afford to move out and stay only temporarylike a few months. But living for awhile, is called spoiled in the US. Is this the norm in France? I am surpised no one says anything to you about that. Are you going to listen to my opinion and I have a huge feeling that my opinion is not rare. But it seems to be that this works for you and your family, so I think thats what the most important. If it works for you and your daughter that you and she love being together and she is still such a tiny baby, ignore everyone and go with what you want. Being home with her doesn't spoil her and what little tiny baby doesn't deserve to be spoiled?
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 16 2008, 10:37 am
Quote:
Firstly your ped was giving her personaly opinion not a medical one. So don't think its the word of G-d just because she is a doctor.


I know. It's just that all docs (and truthfully, almost all people) repeat the same things.

Quote:

Obsessing and constantly telling your child that they are the smartest and most beautiful all the time is more damaging.


I don't do that. Well ok, maybe beautiful.


Quote:
Truthfully by american standards the fact that you live at home and haven't even moved out of your bedroom and you are married with a kid to many here in the US is a problem bigtime.


Well, to each their own. But where would you want me to live? in the garden? really my room is the best solution, because it has its own floor, bathroom... while if I moved in a guest room it would be on the same floor than my parents.


Quote:
Is this the norm in France?


No. The norm is to get married about a decade older than I did. Now, the norm for very young couples... I don't know enough of them to tell you. I do know some who live with parents, others buy an apt.

Quote:
I am surpised no one says anything to you about that.


They do comment. They say it's nice today to see an extended family so close, like before. But they also say it makes even more spoiling for dd.


Quote:
little tiny baby doesn't deserve to be spoiled?


They seem to disagree she's so little, in fact. To them a 10 months old has nothing to do "with mom all day"...
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Crayon210




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 16 2008, 10:41 am
Ruchel wrote:
-dd is adorable and very advanced (keyn ayn hore) BUT horribly spoiled, she makes tanthrums and yells when I'm not in sight or not interacting with her. It's not a need, but a WANT.


This is normal for kids, especially this age. Taking it away at this age davka would be difficult for her. Not necessary, either.


Quote:
All this comes from because I am with her all day, which is not a "normal situation". When I told her it's normal since I'm at home, she told me sahm put their kids in daycare a few days a week or half day every day, generally. Because they don't want clingy babies, and want time for themselves.


Selfish, no need.


Quote:
-she said I'm obsessed with mothering, so I'm limiting myself.


Limiting? The sky's the limit! You're raising a yiddishe neshama!

Quote:
I told her I was writing my master thesis, and she said at least it was something good for me I was doing, and not just babybabybabybaby. But she told me I should go out to write it at the university, or even take a part time job, since I am not able to put some distance with dd by putting her in daycare sometimes.


That's silly. You're a mother now. Of course you're going to have strong feelings for your daughter and want to spend time with her. I'd write it at home if possible.


Quote:
-she said it's my fault if my pregnancy brain isn't going away, I was an "intellectual" before birth, and now I'm a "housewife" and my brain adapted. I won't get back my former state if I stay on the housewife level. (can't believe someone would say that). I told her my mother, with a PhD, stayed at home for me, and didn't get it, but she answered it's worse for "young girls" (in France I'm considered almost a case -the average first time birth is at 30).


Pregnant brain becomes mommy brain, unless you don't spend any time with your kids and are a mommy in biology only. It doesn't go away!

Quote:
-now that dh has heard that, he says it would be better to put dd in daycare part time so we would have more time just us (he doesn't work).


Can you spend time together when the baby is napping? Can your parents watch her for short periods so you can have time together? Don't you spend a lot of time together already? (Not a judgment, just a question.)

Quote:
He doesn't get why I would be stressed about not knowing what happens in day care. But the idea gives me stomach aches.


Of course! It's scary leaving your child with a stranger (or even someone you know) when you don't know how s/he'll react to your baby. And you're probably worried it won't be the way you do...all good reason to be nervous and not put her in daycare "stam".

Quote:
-My dad is obsessed about my thesis and that I need to finish it with the highest grade possible (basically what my dictionary translates as "valedictorian"). He thinks it would be too unfair if "some [gentile]" was getting it, and that I would regret not working more (which is true). He says if the doctor thinks I'll go back to normal with dd in daycare, I must do it.


I don't necessarily agree that you have to get the best grade. You have other focuses now-you've gotten married and had a baby. Not that the thesis isn't important-it's just that you have other focuses.

In terms of regrets, I think people always look back and romanticize and say, "Why didn't I work harder?" Because that's just the way it is. Other priorities, other commitments. ככה.

Quote:
- My mom also said we need dd in daycare for reason above, until I reminded her she didn't do it for me... so now she kinda supports me, but she says at least I must go with her to a "mommy and me" type thing, so she starts seeing other people and being less clingy and spoiled.


It might be good for both of you, try it out and see if you like it?

Quote:
-last but not least... apparently my fear to leave dd alone in a daycare is bordering on not normal, and "I may need therapy" because I'm too attached and so is dd (in reaction).


We live in a sad world if people need therapy for having basic maternal instincts. Sad
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chavs




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 16 2008, 10:55 am
If your dd is 10 months old I really dont think she can be spoiled yet.
I am not sure why you would ask a ped for their oppinion on how to parent your child. A ped might be gr8 when it comes to diagnosing, giving medicine etc. But There are so many diverse opinions both from paediatricians and other health care professionals, that to think there view is Tsomething you need to follow or get upset about is absurd. Many child experts belive that a child is better of being at home until school age, some think they should go to nursery.
For a 10 month old to cry for their mummy is normal they go through a stage of separation anxiety around then I seem to recall, and in the books I read it said its important to show them that you are there for them.
For your dd to throw her dummy is equally normal, she was playing a game, and having fun.
Please dont ever hit her. In England (where I live) that is actually against the law.
Its ironic, for personal reasons I had to send my son to nursery from 9 til 12 not long after he turned 2, and I felt like a horrible mother because I had to make that choice (b-H he is thriving and happy but I still feel guilty) I was planning on keeping him home till he was at least 3. Its really all relative.
You are the mother and you know you child best. Close your ears when ppl say things that upset you.
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gryp




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 16 2008, 10:57 am
Ruchel, when you think ahead of how many years your daughter will be out of the house for hours and hours a day, you can realize that she is so little now and there is really no reason in the entire world why you should send her away at 10 months.

There is nothing wrong with telling your daughter she's beautiful all the time. I'm sure she is. Keep telling her. Wink Just don't spoil her. That means, you don't let her get her way every time she wants something. Teach her right and wrong.

There will be time enough to send her for her independence in a few years. I don't see anything wrong with a child surrounded by loving parents and grandparents. It used to be that everyone lived together and I don't see anything wrong with that as long as everyone's happy doing so- on the contrary, I think there are many benefits.

As an only child you can understand that just because you are always being doted on by adults doesn't mean you'll turn into a spoiled brat.


Decide for yourself, at what age are you comfortable leaving your child in someone else's care, and work backwards from there. Explain your reasons to your husband and parents, and I'm sure they'll see your point. Maybe set aside some time each day to work on your thesis, to make your father (and yourself) happy.

Good Luck.
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chavs




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 16 2008, 11:00 am
I forgot to add that going to a mummy and me where your daughter sees other children in an environment where you are also there is a great idea. You both get to socialise and she is with her mummy.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 16 2008, 11:07 am
Quote:
I'd write it at home if possible.


Yup, bh I do it. In the beginning I tried writing it with dd’s on my lap (don’t repeat to the ped or she’ll send me to loony bin lol) but it was impossible (she grabbed everything espeially keyboard), so she plays next to me until she starts yelling, and then dh takes her away. But she hates it.
I only work a few hours a day anyway.


Quote:

Can you spend time together when the baby is napping? Can your parents watch her for short periods so you can have time together? Don't you spend a lot of time together already? (Not a judgment, just a question.)


We try to get most things done during a nap, but she's very active and not into napping a lot. I write my thesis, dh learns, and when he has finished he needs to do stuff for his studies too.
My parents watch her about an evening a week, so we go out without her, but he kinda misses the times we were together ALL THE TIME (and without a baby). Except when we’re busy, we’re together, but not just us, you see ?



Quote:
And you're probably worried it won't be the way you do


I’m afraid people will not understand what she wants (not that I always do, but in the end I always find it), or take the pain to try to understand. And since she can’t talk she can’t tell me how it went. And I’m afraid of other kids hitting her.




Quote:
I don't necessarily agree that you have to get the best grade.


Yup. My mom thinks I just need to graduate too.




I’m going to try the mommy and me thing for sure. That way maybe things will calm down. I don’t want to go to a shrink.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 16 2008, 11:09 am
Chavs : don’t worry, hitting babies is not my cup of tea LOL.



Quote:
As an only child you can understand that just because you are always being doted on by adults doesn't mean you'll turn into a spoiled brat.


Some would say I am lol
But I didn’t have grandparents at home, quite on contrary, they were in Israel.



Thanks everyone !
I guess deep down I’m afraid of seeing the social workers come back… when dd was born, the hospital warned them that they had a case a young mother… so they came to my house to see, 3 times if I remember well. One told me it was all good, because « dd had been fed, and she was clean, and she was even in a dress ». She said often young mothers will change the diapers only when they leak everywhere, or like 2 a day, and feed the child when it yells like crazy, because they have « other things in mind ». I told her I wasn't a teen mother, but apparently it's "up to 25".
It was a nightmare.
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catonmylap




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 16 2008, 11:56 am
Quote:
My parents watch her about an evening a week, so we go out without her, but he kinda misses the times we were together ALL THE TIME (and without a baby). Except when we’re busy, we’re together, but not just us, you see ?



You're so lucky you can go every week together! We go out way less often than that. It's always such an ordeal to plan in advance what to do and get a babysitter. We are often so tired that I don't want to make plans because we won't want to go out.

We spent time together every evening after ds goes to bed though.

My ds is also not in any formal daycare; dh watches him. No one has said anything negative about that.

I think they are giving you a hard time because you are much younger than the average mother there. The values there also sound very different from the US and Israel.

When do you plan to moving into your own apartment? I couldn't imagine living with either of our families. It's hard enough when we are there on vacation for less than 2 weeks.[/quote]
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 16 2008, 12:28 pm
Quote:
I don't want to make plans because we won't want to go out.

soooo me... I have been very sick for months and months, just beginning to get better. So yeah...
Quote:

We spent time together every evening after ds goes to bed though.


ditto here. We try to have everything finished by that time, but what a change from before...

Quote:
I think they are giving you a hard time because you are much younger than the average mother there.


definitely plays a big part in it...

Quote:
When do you plan to moving into your own apartment?


If there was a good jewish school around, I would tell you when the house is too crowded with kids... but even if a school opens, I don't want dd to be the frummest, so we have at best 5 years to enjoy here, and then bye bye. At worst, we will need to go when dd is 3, if no gan opens. My parents are supposed to follow us and take an apt close by. Our dream (huge apt for all) seems to be a difficult thing to find.
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