Korbanos in Moshiach Times

amother

Thu, Aug 15 2019, 5:14 pm

We know there'll be korbanos when Bais Hamikdash is rebuilt.
Can you imagine animal sacrificing really happening in our times? Or is the idea that ALL non-Jews will believe in Hashem at that point, so PETA will cease to exist?

PinkFridge

Thu, Aug 15 2019, 9:13 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Since it will be clear to all humans that only they have souls and a connection to Hashem, they may well develop a different attitude to others eating meat.

etky

Fri, Aug 16 2019, 2:48 am

daagahminayin wrote:

There is an opinion from Rav Kook that the korbanos might be from grain, not animals:

https://www.yeshiva.co/ask/6880

Thank you for the link.
I enjoyed reading Rabbi Shvat's answer and very much identify with his hashkafa.

Rappel

Fri, Aug 16 2019, 2:58 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The Rambam, in line with the idea that we'll return to a state of pre-Etz Hadaat, states that sacrifices will be vegetal.

ETA - when I was a kid, the first time I learned that korbanot may yet be vegetarian, I was extremely put out. I wanted my BBQ, darnit! As an adult, I think that either method will suffice: although it makes sense that we'll go back to being vegetarian once we return to the state of Gan Eden, I think that a respectful and harmonious shechita is beautiful, and deeply moving, and I would be happy to do that as well.

imasoftov

Fri, Aug 16 2019, 5:16 am

Rappel wrote:

The Rambam, in line with the idea that we'll return to a state of pre-Etz Hadaat, states that sacrifices will be vegetal.

I'd like to see a source in the Rambam's own words for that. Not that I object, I just want to see the source.

Sunshineforever

Fri, Aug 16 2019, 6:09 am

Rappel wrote:

I think that a respectful and harmonious shechita is beautiful, and deeply moving, and I would be happy to do that as well.

Slaughtering is never harmonious. You do realise that, right?

PinkFridge

Fri, Aug 16 2019, 7:13 am

Sunshineforever wrote:

Slaughtering is never harmonious. You do realise that, right?

True but it can be more humane. See the Temple Grandin quote. No time to find the source.

I don't know if we'll have animal korbanos. Will we be like Odom Harishon kodem hacheit? Even if we don't have them, the philosophical approach will be different.

amother

Fri, Aug 16 2019, 11:32 am

Rappel wrote:

Return to the state of Gan Eden, pre eitz hadaas, in moshiach times? Never heard this one. Honestly, sounds a bit utopian/fairy tale like... No working, schools. No clothing? Wink

zaq

Fri, Aug 16 2019, 12:11 pm

Considering that the intended ideal state of humanity in Gan Eden was vegan, and humankind was given permission to eat meat only because they had a taavah for it, not because the KBH wanted them to, it is quite reasonable to believe that in Acharit hayamim we will revert to that vegan state. Eating meat is inconsistent with Yishayahu's vision of "vearyeh kabakar yochal teven". (Isaiah 11:7)What, beasts of prey will eat grain but humans will still eat meat? Unlikely.

amother

Dodgerblue

Fri, Aug 16 2019, 2:58 pm

I don't remember the source, but I do remember learning at one point as a teenager that Hashem originally did not intend for there to be karbanos other than bread or grain or incense. Bnei Yisrael had such a taiva for karbanos of animals because they were steeped in the ways of avoda zara that Hashem decided to institute animal karbanos as a way of sanctifying that desire and bringing Bnei Yisrael closer to Him and keeping them from straying to avoda zara. We no longer have that taiva so there will be no need for karbanos of animals in the future.

amother

Fri, Aug 16 2019, 5:14 pm

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

How interesting, thanks.

imasoftov

Sat, Aug 17 2019, 2:09 pm

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

I don't know if the "Hashem originally did not intend ..." part is there, but the idea that animal sacrifices were instituted because that was how people were accustomed to serve idols is found in Rambam's Moreh Nevuchim 3:32. I also have not come across anything resembling the final sentence there either. But it's a large book and sacrifices are mentioned in other chapters, so if anyone has a reference, let's hear it.

Even if one never opens a copy of the Moreh, one can find Rambam's idea criticized by Ramban and defended by Abarbanel in their commentaries near the start of Vayika.

leah233

Sat, Aug 17 2019, 9:53 pm

Question for those who seem to have an issue with Korbonos after Mosiach. Are you also expecting all people to become vegetarians as well?

Or is only animal Korbonos that you feel uncomfortable with?

(I think a cow or a sheep that was given a choice would prefer to end up on the mizbayich in the Beis Hamikdash then in some families stomaches.)

amother

Dodgerblue

Sat, Aug 17 2019, 10:10 pm

I'm a very happy omnivore but I don't understand why we would need animal karbanos once Mashiach comes. I don't think Hashem needs it for Himself and I don't think we as a people will need it to bring us closer to Hashem like we did in the past. See my post above. Would you feel closer to Hashem by bringing a korban or by davening?

amother

Dodgerblue

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 12:09 am

I didn't say we don't have the taiva to eat meat. I said we no longer have the taiva to make animal sacrifices to avoda zara. Remember all those stories in Tanach about people building bamos to make their own sacrifices? We don't do that anymore, right?

amother

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 12:36 am

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

To continue this train of thought, does Hashem needs non animal korbanos? Do we as people need them to be closer to Him? Wouldn't davening accomplish it better?
What about the whole services? Kohanim/leviim, with their jobs? Does He need? Do we?