Feeling cheated about Shabbos Nachamu Program

happyone

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 6:56 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

That settles it. Next year, we're all coming to your house. Do we get a special rate if we enter "IMAMOTHER" in the coupon code?

OP, please change the title from the offensive word, to "cheated" or "ripped off".

Frantic Frumie, looking forward to.host you for a shabbos.

amother

cornflower

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 6:56 am

watergirl wrote:

Stop at the bolded. If the moms don't want to want to watch their kids while their husbands are not able to, too bad. No one else should watch them. This is not break time for mommy. Later, when the fathers are not davening, they can take a shift and give mom a break.

Agreed. But amother above was discussing the kiddush, when presumably davening is over.
The men know how to behave at the kiddush, the women don't.
Now, I agree that it is wrong and chilul hashem to let your kids run wild in a public place while you schmooze. Very wrong. But to say the men are better? Send them all the little ones (not just boys calm enough to daven), and then and only then make a comparison.

sty123

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 7:31 am

Hi op
Yes I believe I was at the same program as you , and yes I have the exact same feelings.
1- the program owner claimed there would be lavish meals ... I mean I wasn’t expecting prime rib Friday night, but at least provide a decent basic amount of food !! Yes mr program owner we PAYED to come for shabbos!!!
We weren’t invited guest , we payed our hard earned money to enjoy a shabbos away based on your word of having a beautiful shabbos, with all our basic needs taken care of !!
This is not the first time this program owner did a program. And yes he knew exactly how much he charged per person, and he knew exactly how much food , Nosh etc he bought/ ordered for the program. It wasn’t a outside Catrering company who dropped the ball it was the owner himself who decided that this will suffice my customers who payed money.
1/2

amother

Slateblue

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 7:31 am

only amother wine seems to see this behavior. Lots of us go to kiddushes and no one is throwing food or jumping out the windows.

sty123

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 7:35 am

2/2-
The fact is that we felt cheated and misinformed by the owner himself, who outright knew what he was doing.
Well he lost our family as customers!!!!!

watergirl

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 8:44 am

sty123 wrote:

I'm so curious about how someone chooses a program to spend their money on. I have no horse in this race because this is WAY above my financial bracket. But can anyone shed light for me? Before you decide to spend over $1000 on a weekend (or pesach, or any other one of these programs), what research do you do? Did you see in print the owner using the word "lavish"? Do you see that word as objective or subjective? What promises were made, specifically? What do you consider to be a basic need? Are pistachios in a tea-room a basic need? What else would you have wanted to see for your $1000 to walk away feeling like you got what you paid for? What is it that the other comparable programs provided that you expected to have here? At the same price point.

I would love to know how people decide to go to a particular program and spend so much money. If it were me, I imagine I would have asked to see a sample menu, know who is providing the hashgacha, if there is daycare, I would want to know the credentials of the providers, and itinerary at the very least.

baby12x

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 8:57 am

I'm just flabbergasted at the amount of money people pay to go away for shabbos!

amother

Orchid

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 9:00 am

watergirl wrote:

We do serious research by asking around, reading reviews online and posting online asking questions about it. I would never choose just based on an ad because they all hype it up. We have also called and asked the program very specific questions about the things that are important to us. If they weren't willing to sit on the phone answering questions we wouldn't go.

amother

Wine

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 9:07 am

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

only amother wine seems to see this behavior. Lots of us go to kiddushes and no one is throwing food or jumping out the windows.

I also have gone to a lot of kiddishes and saw the jumping out the windows once. I didn't witness the kugel throwing. The kids acting wild in parsippany were witnessed by the reveiwers. I also saw this. This isn't made up. How do you think these families behave when not at the motels? Do you think that behavior is exclusively there?

I can't be the only mother on this site who has seen unsupervised children misbehave. I can't be the only one who has seen unsupervised children not using proper serving utensils at kiddishes. And finally, I can't be the only one who has seen unsupervised children at kiddishes.

Besides slateblue, because you didn't witness something doesn't mean it didn't happen. I have also gone to a lot of hotels and hotels, I have never seen the wildness I saw in parsippany.

dankbar

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 9:46 am

Many people at home are very strict & don't allow messes but outside they are on vacation & don't care & let their kids loose. As long as they don't have to deal with the messes.

I see in my building too, the people who are cleanest neat freaks in their home, send their kids out with snacks/ices in shared hallways & make the biggest messes outside.

I am opposite. If I catch my kid throwing out a wrapper from my porch, I will make them go down few flights to pick it up, because it's public party.
My messes I keep in my home, not outside.
My kids don't play in the hallways & somehow all kids end up playing in front of my door & leave the mess behind.
I do let my kids do crafts in my own home, even if it makes messes.

dankbar

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 9:50 am

I remember by my sons bar mitzvah I specifically only invited the big boys in family, that know how to behave by a simcha. They didn't follow & brought a bunch of younger wilder boys and it was a disaster. Throwing chocolate & spraying water. The parents are on vacation & don't look after their kids by simchas. I think it's totally wrong.

lcraighten

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 10:09 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think we have a solution then; a rating system for these programs by unbiased people. Unfortunately, there is no price transparency in most of these programs, nor is there a detailed list of foods served besides the owner's description. Therein lies the problem. Yes, it is an unregulated industry.

Price should be proportional to the service level provided. Here, it seems we grossly overpaid. The nice program was $975 or so per couple plus tax. We paid over 1,000 for a very junky program.

Not sure why the owner wore a hat, but I believe he is Chassidish.

You keep saying you paid over $1,000, how much did you actually pay? $1,100 or $1,900? It makes a bit of a difference seeing as this discussion is so much tied to the amounts.

southernbubby

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 10:15 am

I think that we all have to learn to see through advertising since some words have different meanings to different people. We usually get what we pay for and true bargains are rare. If a deal seems too good to be true, then it probably isn't a good deal.

DVOM

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 11:14 am

baby12x wrote:

I'm just flabbergasted at the amount of money people pay to go away for shabbos!

I'm sorry op was disappointed by her weekend away ☹️. It's tough to look forward to being pampered and to feel like you only got a bare-bones experience.

But! Yes! 1000$ for a weekend??! Wow!

I'm going to start advertising weekends 'away' at my house. It will be totally lavish!!! I think I'd make big bucks this way!!

Chayalle

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 11:20 am

DVOM wrote:

I'm advertising it to myself.

Chayalle, what a bargain. You are invited to a lavish weekend in your own home, for alot less than $1000. Delicious food, comfortable couches, your own bed to sleep in.

I'm in! Can't wait!

amother

Crimson

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 11:31 am

$1000+ is a lot of money for a Shabbos.

I can't imagine any program meeting my expectation for that amount of money.

I would be disappointed unless the primary purpose would be to spend quality time with friends or extended family in a relaxing atmosphere.

I'm glad you posted so that I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything when I stay home.

baby12x

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 11:34 am

DVOM wrote:

Absolutely! I would be soooo upset if I spent that kind of money and wasn't utterly thrilled with my experience. This thread has been a real eye-opener.

zaq

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 12:13 pm

And here I thought the complaint was going to be about uninspiring speakers, subpar programming and lack of ruchniyus. Silly me.

DrMom

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 12:38 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My husband and I booked a shabbos Nachamu getaway at a local "program." I am withholding the name for Loshon Harah purposes.

I feel that we were completely scammed by the program director, who was, most of the shabbos, missing-in-action.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe these programs are supposed to be "over the top" in terms of food.

The food was OK, very basic. When we came in, there was a welcome lunch which was decent. Some fruit platters, some hot dishes (Cholent, Kugel), cold cuts, but basic turkey, pastrami and some Kielbasa, no real "good stuff" or fish of any sort.

After the lunch, the tea room had bags of potato chips and whole apples and bananas. That's it. No nuts, no nothing else.

The evening meal, which I'm upset about not because of the food, but because it took them over 2 hours to serve, was also, basic. No complaints over food quality.

The "oneg" after the meal, they threw down literally some pre-bought cake and cookies and a few bowls of candy. There were no fancy chocolates, no fruit, and no viennese crunch.

Shabbos morning got me very upset. There was cold cereal and milk, some basic cakes (sponge, marble, kokosh, etc), hard boiled eggs, and some cut up cantaloupe and watermelon. Nothing nothing fancy or different. I was hoping for a good cheesecake or something out of the ordinary.

Lunch there was no fish. Just eggs/liver, cholent, cold cut platter (pastrami, turkey, grilled chicken) and sorbet.

Shalosh Seudos there were rolls, tuna/eggs, salad, and smoked whitefish.

Team room after lunch absolutely a joke. They served potato chips and corn chips and cut up watermelon. There was no jelly rings, fancy chocolates, pistachios.

Aside from the meals, there was not enough food to go around. Maybe they got quite a few last-minute reservations, but they ran out of everything really quickly. I woke up early this morning or I was afraid I wouldn't get breakfast.

I'm not saying this to sound spoiled. I know it takes a lot of run such a program. But I work hard and have a job, and when you are spending so much on such a program, you expect a little more. It's a splurge/indulgence-purchase for most working people. I'm fine spending it if I'd get something for my money.

I think the people that did their own thing at Embassy Suites did better than we all did and paid a fraction of the price (About $1000 a room).

I also know the people who do this need to make money too, and I'm not saying they shouldn't take a cut, but they should also know what's "standard" in such a program tea room or at a breakfast.

Overall, I'm happy. They provided us meals, which were fresh. Hotel was nice. Am I wrong to feel, though that they took our money and "ripped us off?"

One woman, who was there and also very dissapointed, told us that they said over the phone to her there will be "9 Lavish meals" and really up-sold the program to get her to come. I'm not sure where they get nine from (I count 8 meals) but how can you call some cut-up cake and fruit a "Lavish" breakfast?

I"m sorry, but I feel gypped.

Anyone else relate, or went to a different program and had a better experience? I would love to know where to go next year if some other owners actually care about providing a good experience.

I just started reading this thread and admittedly haven't gotten through all of it, but was this just for Shabbat? 9 meals?? Or did this include Sunday?

Seems like a lot of food. And who needs all these tea rooms and post-meal meals? Didn't you just eat?

I guess I am not familiar with these programs, but why so much food?

And why is "Viennese crunch" so critical?

I get the idea of expecting luxury if you pay for luxury, but what does one do with all that food??

watergirl

Tue, Aug 20 2019, 12:45 pm

DrMom wrote:

Viennese crunch is one of those things that everyone loves but no one wants to pay for. I've never seen it at a buffet or kiddush or simcha. I thought it was one of those things that's bought for shabbos in small quantities and hidden from the kids. Oh, and used in massive quantities in frummy magazine recipes for some reason.

Maybe to OP, its part of what falls under "lavish"?