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Tzedakah and Vacation
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amother




OP


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 11:51 pm
How can I learn not to be bothered by someone who I give money to monthly (without her knowing it's coming from me) when she jets off more than once a year on vacation? (Even if it's only a basic one.)
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pesek zman




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 11:53 pm
If it bothers you, stop giving her money.
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mum22




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 11:53 pm
Is someone sponsoring her vacation?
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amother




OP


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 11:56 pm
No one is sponsoring these vacations. They were desperately looking for a sponsor to pay up money owed on the rent so that she doesn't get evicted.

I know. I can stop giving. (That's my husband's advice.) But I feel bad. They need this money to live on.
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pesek zman




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 11:58 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
No one is sponsoring these vacations. They were desperately looking for a sponsor to pay up money owed on the rent so that she doesn't get evicted.

I know. I can stop giving. (That's my husband's advice.) But I feel bad. They need this money to live on.


If they truly needed it to live on they wouldn’t be taking vacations. Sorry, but it’s true. I get it: everyone needs a break, a change of scenery, to not feel so oppressed by bills. But not on my dime. Stop giving
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amother




OP


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 12:05 am
I knew that by posting this I might get terrible backlash. I thought it would do me good and I'd learn to mix out. But this gets to me every time they go away (to "air out" cuz they "need it"). I work really hard/long hours to be able to pay my bills and keep afloat with a tiny extra for the occasional small treat. The hours she works is not even half of what I do.
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amother




Teal


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 12:08 am
Either you accept that she is emotionally more fragile than you, and a small vacation is cheaper than a full-on breakdown, or you expect her to buck up, and you stop giving her. If you do, you can explain that you feel that by going on vacation, she is not truly giving this her all, and you can't do it for her.
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amother




OP


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 12:10 am
I need to accept that she needs this. I can't stop giving. How does one learn to do this?
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amother




Teal


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 12:20 am
Imagine your current stress level multiplied by 2. Maybe imagine that you're always feeling 20 minutes behind, your boss is mean to you in addition to the regular workday pressures, your kids' teachers are angry at you, and your husband is snapping at you every time you ask a simple question.

Now imagine going through that for a day. For a week. For a month.

Then imagine that by taking 3 days off and getting away from your disaster of a life, you feel like you got a fresh start. Imagine that during all the tough moments over the year, you can look to those three days and tell yourself to hang on. Imagine that during those days your husband doesn't snap at you, and you can look into his eyes and remember why you married him. Imagine that for 3 days you feel NORMAL, and remember that this is what type of life you are working towards.

Doesn't a 3-day vacation sound like a better idea, maybe even a necessity for them?

(Disclaimer: I don't go on vacation.)
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amother




Tangerine


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 5:13 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I need to accept that she needs this. I can't stop giving. How does one learn to do this?


It's hard. I give money also to two families who seem to need it. One uses it to buy luxuries. She told me that she has others giving to her also and is using the money to buy luxuries.

The person you are giving to may not be as desperate as you think she is. You can either accept that your money is being used for jetting off on vacation or stop giving or give to someone else who truly needs and is working harder than you and has less. If she didn't spend her money jetting off yearly, them she would have rent money.

These people who live off others tzedukah are very good at getting what is available. DH says I still get the mitzvah. In my case, I continue to give at the level I was giving to one family. They are trying hard. I seriously cut down on my level of giving to the second family that is using the money to buy luxuries. I know the everyone needs a treat argument. Personally, I rather support necessities than luxuries.

You either need to accept you are paying for her jetting or stop giving to them. You can't let yourself get aggravated by doing a mitzvah.
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chasdie Hashem




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 5:36 am
Chazal say that a p/ has to give tzaddaka to the other p/ for wtvr The other person needs.so if the person you are giving to ,was bought up to getting dressed in s&w dresses...& x having it will cause him sorrow-then that’s the standard for him& it’s totally considered
tzaddaka!ask a shayla to confirm but almost sure..
#2 like s/o mentioned,this family is under CRAZ stress from the financial situation-& who knows ?mayb they have other hard nisyoines that u don’t know!!
If you give it with kavana lsheim shamayim,even if x easy-u get schar!
(Had sAme situation ...)
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 8:56 am
It sounds like an in-law relative that everyone shuts up and gives to but doesn't dare confront about their spending habits and the money is the price of peace.
If it isn't something like that, ask a Rav how to discontinue because if it has gone on for awhile, and people are depending on it, there may be halachic ramifications.
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amother




Cerise


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 9:08 am
Do you know for sure she is paying for vacations or maybe she is getting these vacation off points or some other "free" way?
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Simple1




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 9:16 am
amother [ Cerise ] wrote:
Do you know for sure she is paying for vacations or maybe she is getting these vacation off points or some other "free" way?


This could use a spin off. But people who are that tight for money should get a cash back card instead of one with travel points.

That said, a basic vacation can by some definitions, be considered a necessity and a chesed to her to recharge from the stresses of life. Although, maybe twice a year is a bit much.
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amother




Taupe


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 9:40 am
amother [ Cerise ] wrote:
Do you know for sure she is paying for vacations or maybe she is getting these vacation off points or some other "free" way?

Obviously I don't know the person's situation. Just putting the concept out there.

My coworker's son needs to travel a lot for work. (Granted he is single and not frum). He recently needed to be on site for training for 3 months and stayed at a Homewood Suites. Although work pays for his stay, he personally gets the points. He always used the same chain so that the points match. His points are not transferable to anything other that free nights, but they are transferable to others. He gifts them. Is it possible she is able to have free nights in the hotel?

Another coworker's family works for an airline and she gets a set number of free tickets (quarterly? I don't recall the interval). Is it possible the airline tickets are free?

Maybe she has been gifted free airline and free hotel? Maybe the people who gift them know she needs them and give them exclusively and consistently to her?

Maybe someone gifted her a package to a Chinese auction so she could have a night out, as the money was all for tzedaka anyway, and she won? I have 2-3 friends who win something big (trip to Disney/shaital/diamond bracelet...) almost every time, sometimes multiple things at the auction. I feel this is Hashem's plan to help pick them up and let them have nice things they otherwise wouldn't have.
(I have never won anything (ok, once I won a mini crock pot) -at times I momentarily get envious, but remember that Hashem has gifted me many other things and has different outlets for different people and I would trade my pecalach for another)
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amother




Ruby


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 9:42 am
Was thinking to post about this topic also. We are going through the same thing and it gets me crazy. The guy had the nerve to ask dh if he know somebody to sponser his vacay because he had $500 in budget and needed $1,000 for a few day summer vacay.( We take an anual 2 day vacay for under $300 and they sat in florida 2 weeks in the winter on someone elses dime)
We bought them a washing machine when theirs broke and he always begs dh for money for bills and clothes (she buys only in local stores while I spend hours online searching for deals and then she tells me my kids are dressed cheap).
I am learning to cut down the aid to them but it is hard for dh to say no to someone that he cares (they are deeply in debt). I will give them money for things that I believe is important such as therapy for thier kids at therapist of my choices.
We payed for thier financial counseling but it didn't help much. They still dont understand the value of money, especially other people's so we are stopping to pay for help for that too.
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sub




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 9:51 am
My grandfather עליו השלום taught us that we give tzedaka with a full heart and that we don’t know what another person’s needs are. It’s not for us to decide or judge. Of course you may decide which of the many requests you wish to give to.
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:02 am
One of the many reasons that I prefer to give to organizations or to our Rabbi's discretionary fund, apart from the tax deduction, is that I don't want to have to think about stuff like this or make it personal.

I accept that a certain percentage of organizational funds will go to people who might be undeserving or be wasted in random inefficiencies. That is much easier for me to process than the type of situation you are describing which would feel very personal.
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amother




Aquamarine


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:24 am
Anyone who gives to a person who has money for luxuries the donor can't afford and doesn't resent it is either a saint or should have her head examined Very Happy

I don't care about comparing theoretical levels of "stress" or whatever - if someone needs money because they have no money for rent they have no business spending money on even a modest vacation. Where in the world do people get the idea that a "vacation" that costs money is necessary for the emotional well being of a poor fragile soul. Growing up my family didn't take "vacations" that cost money - I.e. that entailed airplanes or hotel visits or eating in restaurants. I remember reminiscing with my cousin after he had taken his children to Disney World (he is a doctor) about how we would never even thought about our going there as children - it would have been inconceivable even to ask Laugh Laugh I am just using that as an example that it wasn't normal for our families to spend money on vacations. Very Happy I am sure my parents would have loved to "get away" - when the children were grown and out of the house, they had more money and did start traveling on "real" vacations - to Europe, Israel, Hawaii etc.so this was a luxury that they went without because they had mortgages, tuition, car expenses, clothing, food and other necessities.

Like others posted unless it is giving spare change to a beggar on the street or knowing someone is destitute and delivering groceries or clothing for the children, I give to organizations and I have no guilt that I am not funding luxury lifestyles for people who have stupid economic priorities and avoid these kinds of situations in which I would feel horribly used and stupid.

Yes I am judgmental - so be it.
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:35 am
There's a difference between giving based on need and giving as a means of expressing support or some other sentiment.

For example, the young spouse of a former coworker recently died, and there was a GoFundMe. I think she's probably OK financially, but I gave anyway because it was my way of saying "I'm sorry this sad thing happened to you and I want to do something small to make your life easier." I don't care if she gets a designer bag with the money. I didn't give it based on need.

When people give based on need, they often feel somewhat coerced. Like, if I don't give this person rent money, it will be my fault she is evicted. That makes a person feel resentful, especially if they then feel misled about the existence of the need.

So, OP, if you want, you can reframe your reason for giving. That you're not giving based on need, but simply to increase the person's enjoyment of life. And if that reframing makes the giving no longer compelling, then maybe you should just not give to this person.
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