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Forum
-> Parenting our children
-> Toddlers
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amother
OP
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 Wed, Aug 21 2019, 4:20 pm
I was catching up with an old friend of mine and she told me she does a toddler group in her home for kids around 2 -2.5 yes old. She takes around 14-15 kids. Till two years ago she had an assistant. Then her neighbor upstairs opened another group for 3 year olds. She said then she was able to let her assistant go because since theres another adult upstairs, the parents are ok with just one teacher. She also said the downside of not having an assistant is that she can't run out to do errands during the day (meaning even with an assistant the kids where left with just one teacher sometimes)
I'm finding it upsetting that so many parents are ok with this. Why?? Ok they may not have known she did errands, but why are they ok now with one teacher? What if the teacher goes the bathroom? How can she change the kids and supervise at the same time?
Where I live usually with 2 yr olds for a group of 15 or more kids there's an teacher and two assistants. But I can hear parents sending to a group with one assistant if the teacher is really good, can handle it and there's no other options. But just one teacher??? Even if there's another adult upstairs (and that adult has around 15 kids to, it's not like she can just run down to help if needed). I'm so upset that this is ok.
She then didn't understand why I got so worked up. She said everyone were she lives does that. And if there's an emergency she'll bring the kids to up to the teacher upstairs. She thought I was overreacting.
Was I? Should I have just minded my own business here?
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Rappel
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 4:24 pm
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I think 2 year olds must no more than a 6:1 ratio, and then only if the teacher is good. So I'm way out of your ballpark range here. But I hear you sister.
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mha3484
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 4:25 pm
I agree with you. I would never send to a group that does not have an assistant.
I once looked into a playgroup for 18-24 month olds. I loved everything the morah told me until she said no assistant. Thats it for me. No thanks. Where I live, there is a play group for older 3's so most of them turn 4 in the beginning part of the school year also no assistant. It would be great for my kids but what if she has to call hatzalah or use a bathroom. Its not safe at all.
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amother
Ecru
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 4:29 pm
I live in Israel and this is definitely not ok.
No one here runs groups like that. For 5-6 kids, there can be one adult. For 6+ kids there needs to be 2 adults at least for most of the time. A Morah shouldn't take more than 12 kids. The kids don't get any attention like that and the Morah will get frustrated and burnt out.
For 15- 20 kids, there would need to be 3 morah's. (1 morah and 2 assistants).
Most responsible parents will not send to a group with that setup.
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amother
Crimson
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 4:30 pm
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Whether it was your place to say something I don't know. I most certainly would not leave my child there. Just to put in perspective, when my children were in nursery (3-4), pre-K (4-5) and kindergarten (5-6) there were always two teachers plus one assistant for 16 children.
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bassarah1
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 4:35 pm
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agree. once ran into one of the morahs of sons group during middle of the day shopping and was so surprised and found out they sometimes switch off going to do errands, was not happy to learn that
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amother
Ruby
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 4:45 pm
| Rappel wrote: | | I think 2 year olds must no more than a 6:1 ratio, and then only if the teacher is good. So I'm way out of your ballpark range here. But I hear you sister. |
Yup, way out of ballpark range sounds right. In my state the maximum ratio for this age is 7:1, so there's some variation, but probably not into the double digits.
My state also requires that there be at least one additional staff member whenever 7 or more children are present.
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perquacky
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 4:51 pm
I wouldn't do it, but I'm guessing some parents do it out of desperation. The cost is probably lower because there's no assistant to pay. And daycare can be incredibly expensive, depending on where you live.
Not saying it's a good reason, but I can see it happening.
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Just One
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 4:52 pm
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Probably not a legal daycare. My 2.5 year old is currently in a daycare with a limit of 8 kids & 2 morahs per class with someone else changing diapers. I can see it going up to 15 kids to 2 morahs and that's pushing it
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amother
Emerald
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 4:53 pm
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ra_mom
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 4:56 pm
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It's really sad when people don't realize the benefits of legal child care and oversight. It's there to protect us.
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amother
Mauve
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 5:01 pm
| Rappel wrote: | | I think 2 year olds must no more than a 6:1 ratio, and then only if the teacher is good. So I'm way out of your ballpark range here. But I hear you sister. |
I work in the israeli system for the maonot. Babies and small children the ratio is 6:1
A few months before age 2 the ratio is 7:1.
Somewhere from age 2-3 it jumps again to 9:1 and then 11:1.
I'm not sure of the exact ages, but thats around what we have.
I've only worked on daycare centers...what does ANYONE in their house do when they need the bathroom? If it's 5 or 15 kids?
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amother
Coffee
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 5:11 pm
I have a neighbor who used to do babysitting in her apartment. She would have 8-10 babies at one time - saying some were sleeping so she really only had 5-7 up at any time. NOBODY can take care of 8 babies by themselves!!! The parents were aware of how many babies were there, they just didnt care!
On a rainy day, she didn't want parents coming into her house with strollers with wet wheels so she would tell them to leave the carriage in the hallway. If the baby was sleeping, the baby stayed sleeping IN THE HALLWAY until he woke up. The parents saw the other kids in the hallway sleeping and knew their kid was in the hallway too, but nobody said anything and nobody stopped using this babysitter.
So I guess yes, parents are ok with this. They just want somebody watching their kid - anybody
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zaq
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 5:14 pm
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That is more horrifying than a Steven King novel. I have to assume the people who send their kids there do so because it’s cheap (it better be), they’re desperate and that’s all they can afford.
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amother
Goldenrod
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 5:26 pm
The situation in some communities is that the legal childcare, playgroups will only accept your child if you have vouchers. Anybody else who needs child care is stuck sending to a woman in her home who could do whatever they want because they aren't answerable to anybody. Playgroup age they start out the year telling you that there will be about 8 children per teacher but as the year progresses they accept everybody even though they are already over the limit. The parents are probably not aware that during the day their child is left with only one teacher. I doubt the teachers are telling them that they take turns leaving during the day.
In most situations, parents have to go to work and they have no other good options. It's a really crazy situation.
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amother
Copper
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 5:52 pm
My friend was telling me about a young relative of hers.
The young mom send her baby (under age 1) too a babysitter who has two assistants, and there are a total of 25-30 kids there. Newborns to two year olds. My friend was horrified, but young mom didn't see a problem, as long as baby was happy.
I think that some people are just young and dumb. Imagine how many babies are crying a  t a time!!
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OutATowner
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 6:00 pm
Oh my.
I am stuck because my neighbor babysits, but she has too many kids for my liking. She'll have about 8 ranging from 2 months to 2 years. Even though it is convenient and she is probably insulted, I cannot fathom sending my infant there.
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amother
Bisque
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 6:01 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | I was catching up with an old friend of mine and she told me she does a toddler group in her home for kids around 2 -2.5 yes old. She takes around 14-15 kids. Till two years ago she had an assistant. Then her neighbor upstairs opened another group for 3 year olds. She said then she was able to let her assistant go because since theres another adult upstairs, the parents are ok with just one teacher. She also said the downside of not having an assistant is that she can't run out to do errands during the day (meaning even with an assistant the kids where left with just one teacher sometimes)
I'm finding it upsetting that so many parents are ok with this. Why?? Ok they may not have known she did errands, but why are they ok now with one teacher? What if the teacher goes the bathroom? How can she change the kids and supervise at the same time?
Where I live usually with 2 yr olds for a group of 15 or more kids there's an teacher and two assistants. But I can hear parents sending to a group with one assistant if the teacher is really good, can handle it and there's no other options. But just one teacher??? Even if there's another adult upstairs (and that adult has around 15 kids to, it's not like she can just run down to help if needed). I'm so upset that this is ok.
She then didn't understand why I got so worked up. She said everyone were she lives does that. And if there's an emergency she'll bring the kids to up to the teacher upstairs. She thought I was overreacting.
Was I? Should I have just minded my own business here? |
I’m more concerned with whether these 2 playgroups are licensed...I’d bet not.
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amother
Denim
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 6:09 pm
| bassarah1 wrote: | | agree. once ran into one of the morahs of sons group during middle of the day shopping and was so surprised and found out they sometimes switch off going to do errands, was not happy to learn that |
That's why I would rather have one teacher than a large group with an assistant!
And if the morah goes to the bathroom for a couple of minutes, it's probably safer than you going to the bathroom at home! Room is usually fully baby proof!
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amother
Orchid
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Wed, Aug 21 2019, 6:12 pm
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I was once chatting with someone who owns a playgroup and asked her how many kids she accepts at a time and she was like "oh about 35" . To say I was horrified is a complete understatement. She has two assistants but still.
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