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Parents are really ok with this??? Why???
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amother




Denim


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 6:13 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
I’m more concerned with whether these 2 playgroups are licensed...I’d bet not.

Unfortunately I've heard stories about licensed day care too so the fact that you pay triple the price doesn't prove anything!
(Heard from a therapist that works in one of those daycare as well as various home playgroup and see what's going on, on a weekly basis!)
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amother




Amethyst


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 6:22 pm
I think that in general, two people watching children together is safer. There is more accountability (between the teachers/caregivers) and less risk of neglect, bad situations etc.
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art




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 6:26 pm
Stories can happen in licensed day cares too, but in general, it's a more open setting, with inspections, good caregiver-child ratio, and less risk overall. Some of the larger day care centers have supervisors and other staff that are on top of things...
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amother




Lime


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 6:36 pm
There is a horrific amount of negligence and substandard care in many playgroups. Often, the women who do it would rather be doing anything else. And many are completely disinterested in the children, their well-being or their development. It's a cash business to them, and that's about it. It's really, really sad. And in terms of the parents they often aren't selective because they have too many children and just want to dump them off anywhere. And these types of groups have become so common, it has normalized the abnormality of it all So that's what happens.
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Librarian




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:11 pm
This is outrageous sakanos nefoshos!! I am horrified that there are parents who care so little about their child's safety and well being. This is neglect and as far as I am concerned that provider and the parents are rodfim!
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sky




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:18 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
I’m more concerned with whether these 2 playgroups are licensed...I’d bet not.


Why does it matter? We’re I live you can babysit if not licensed as long as less then a certain number of kids.
I don’t seeing being licensed the worst infraction.
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amother




Chocolate


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:31 pm
I'm a therapist for Early Intervention and I've been to some home babysitters that were horrifying. Dirty, way too many kids, mother/babysitter on the phone all the time. I've also been to some non-Jewish daycares that were really really horrible, yelling at the kids all the time. I now consider it "good" if the only bad thing I see at a daycare is TV on all the time. That used to horrify me until I heard demonic yelling at two year olds. Interestingly enough I used to go to a spanish daycare where the caregivers were very loving and caring toward the children (but there were ants there).
I feel that some of these frum babysitters are sakanos nefashos. If there would be a fire Ch"v how would they get out three sleeping babies and another 6 - 7 kids out of the house?
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MiracleMama




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:35 pm
Wait, I'm stuck on this idea about the person upstairs who is in a different unit, doing her own program with her own group of kids equates to having a second adult around. She might as well be running her program a mile away. She can't abandon ship to come help out ever. What am I misunderstanding?
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Amarante




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:39 pm
As others have posted, child care is expensive and so the parents are either poor and desperate - or clueless or thinking they have a big bargain.

I realize that being licensed isn't a guarantee but I do think that there is at least some kind of process going on that attempts to put safeguards in place - everything from staffing ratios to fire safety or other health issues. If you combine legal/licensed facilities with a parent using due diligence in terms of investigating the reputation of the place - and I would suggest making a random visit at different times to get a real sense of how any place is operated.

Again it is a shame that good childcare is so expensive and so logistically difficult to find.
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amother




Saddlebrown


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:44 pm
amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:
I'm a therapist for Early Intervention and I've been to some home babysitters that were horrifying. Dirty, way too many kids, mother/babysitter on the phone all the time. I've also been to some non-Jewish daycares that were really really horrible, yelling at the kids all the time. I now consider it "good" if the only bad thing I see at a daycare is TV on all the time. That used to horrify me until I heard demonic yelling at two year olds. Interestingly enough I used to go to a spanish daycare where the caregivers were very loving and caring toward the children (but there were ants there).
I feel that some of these frum babysitters are sakanos nefashos. If there would be a fire Ch"v how would they get out three sleeping babies and another 6 - 7 kids out of the house?
.
I'm a therapist too and I agree with all of this. The sad thing is that I've seen how different the caregivers act in front of parents. They come across as so warm and loving, when an hour earlier they were most definitely not. I saw that repeatedly in legal daycares that seemed really attractive as long as you never had the opportunity to be a fly on the wall there. I don't mean outright abuse obviously, nothing parents would pick up on if they watched the video cameras without sound. Just lots of caregivers who didn't have the patience necessary for their job, or adequate understanding of normal and abnormal child development.
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amother




Lavender


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:45 pm
amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:
.
I'm a therapist too and I agree with all of this. The sad thing is that I've seen how different the caregivers act in front of parents. They come across as so warm and loving, when an hour earlier they were most definitely not. I saw that repeatedly in legal daycares that seemed really attractive as long as you never had the opportunity to be a fly on the wall there. I don't mean outright abuse obviously, nothing parents would pick up on if they watched the video cameras without sound. Just lots of caregivers who didn't have the patience necessary for their job, or adequate understanding of normal and abnormal child development.


The situation described by op is a clear safety hazard and would never fly in a legal group.
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amother




Saddlebrown


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:49 pm
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
The situation described by op is a clear safety hazard and would never fly in a legal group.


Absolutely agree with that as well. And it's extremely unlikely that any child in a group that size is getting any kind of tender loving care either. It makes me so sad for those kids. I can't even imagine how much crying happens all day long.
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amother




Seagreen


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 11:29 pm
The caregivers tell the mothers at the end of the day that the baby/toddler was happy.
They’ll never tell the mother the truth-the kid could have been crying and ignored all day, he could have been in a dirty diaper for too long...
The mother believes the caregiver of course because she’s a frum woman and frum people don’t lie.
I’ve been that young naive mother many years ago.
The babysitter could have been in middle of baking challah when I picked up my toddler.
Something is very wrong if a caregiver had time to bake challah with 5-6 babies and toddlers in her care.
The house was always spotless.
I only saw the red flags in retrospect.
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amother




Blush


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 2:36 am
Wow, I can't imagine sending a child to a place like this!

I don't usually send out my children until age 3 at the earliest, but I had a difficult pregnancy with my baby and I couldn't keep up with my 2.5 year old so I sent her to the local JCC Early Childhood Center. She was in a class of 12 children with 3 adult morahs. There were also floaters who came in if a morah was absent or had to step out for a bit. I was extremely happy with the quality of care and the education.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 5:55 am
I've posted about this before, but I'm still mad about it.

My next door neighbor runs an illegal day care out of her home. I came over to ask her to please stop the kids from throwing toys and food over the fence, and teasing my dogs.

When I looked in the doorway, there were 4 tables set up, with 10 chairs each. Every seat was occupied by a 2 year old, and there were more kids sitting on the floor because there wasn't enough room. There was one assistant. Do the math.

When I asked the neighbor to please keep her kids away from the fence and the dogs, she said "There's too many of them, I can't watch them all." She said this with a perfectly straight face, like it was no big deal.

When the kids are in the yard, they cry a LOT, and nobody ever comes over to comfort them. Sometimes 10 or more kids are crying at the same time, or else they are all having a contest to see who can scream the loudest. My sister and I used to have screaming contests, but multiply that by 40+ and it is unbearable. I can't even keep my windows open at lunch time.

When DD lived here, she lost a really good job as a peer counselor, because she needed clear audio. When the interviewer heard the background noise, he said that she should reapply when she could find someplace quiet to work. DD was furious.

I only get 20 shekels an hour to babysit, which I think is ridiculous. People pay pet sitters and dog walkers more than that!

It absolutely baffles me why parents can be so careless with their children's safety and well being.
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Just One




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 11:12 am
I think it's unfair to call parents careless or accuse them of "just wanting to dump their kids somewhere". That is untrue for 99% of parents. Even those sending to a daycare with 40+ kids (Which is an absolutely horrifying situation). I think parents are just trusting, naive, unknowing... Take your pick. I've had my share of bad experiences with daycares. And that's after doing research, visiting to get the feel of a place etc. These things are so hard to know.

What I've learned is that the safest option is only sending a child to a daycare which is under a larger school/center so that there is oversight and accountability. B"h for my babies I've found a babysitter where I can step in any time (and I make sure to do so several times each year). The kids are always happy, playing, babbling. Kids come home well fed, clean, diapers changed (btw constant diaper rashes are biggest sign of caregiver neglect). There are definitely vibes you can get from a place when you're looking out for them
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 12:03 pm
I only sent my children to a playgroup where there was a Morah and a full-time assistant who is not related to the Morah, and a reasonable number of children.

I am horrified by the arrangement OP describes. NOT OK.

I remember when one of my DD's was in 3-year-old playgroup, there was a fire in a house adjacent to where the playgroup was. B"H all of the children in the group were quickly evacuated (as a precaution) to a safe location across the street. Would the Morah with the large 2-yr-old group be able to do that on her own?

I also like there to be 2 full time adults. This way, if a child needs help in the bathroom, for example...the other Morah is watching the rest of the kids. If something comes up, there has to be another adult present.

The two adults being non-related (like the assistant can't be the Morah's daughter) is a Shmirah for both of them, that there is nothing going on that shouldn't be.

For those of you who knew her, these were the guidelines that my good friend Ziva Kriger A"H gave me when my kids became playgroup age....
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