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Bris when baby's father isn't Jewish

 
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amother




OP


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 7:18 pm
I am asking here as this is not in any way practical to me right now so I don't want to bother a rav about it.

My cousin, whose husband is not Jewish, had a baby boy. Of course the baby is Jewish and bh had a kosher bris with an Orthodox mohel. I was unable to attend as it was too far to travel, so I wasn't there. I'm wondering if anyone knows, are there any notable differences in the bris when the father of the baby is not Jewish? Also, how does it work with his name? Obviously he would be Ploni Ben Plonit in situations where the mother's name is used, but what is his name for when the father's name is used? Is it Ben Avraham like for a convert? Or something else? Or does he just always use his mother's name for ritual purposes? How does it work?
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 7:28 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am asking here as this is not in any way practical to me right now so I don't want to bother a rav about it.

My cousin, whose husband is not Jewish, had a baby boy. Of course the baby is Jewish and bh had a kosher bris with an Orthodox mohel. I was unable to attend as it was too far to travel, so I wasn't there. I'm wondering if anyone knows, are there any notable differences in the bris when the father of the baby is not Jewish? Also, how does it work with his name? Obviously he would be Ploni Ben Plonit in situations where the mother's name is used, but what is his name for when the father's name is used? Is it Ben Avraham like for a convert? Or something else? Or does he just always use his mother's name for ritual purposes? How does it work?


I don't know about the name, but mazel tov. A Jewish baby was born, and given a brit milah, no different from any other brit milah.
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essie14




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 7:30 pm
I have several friends whose fathers are not Jewish. They are called to the Torah as Ploni Ben Avraham.
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amother




OP


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 7:42 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
I don't know about the name, but mazel tov. A Jewish baby was born, and given a brit milah, no different from any other brit milah.


Of course I'm happy that a Jewish baby was born in my family and had a bris. But just off the top of my head, I can think of a number of things that might be slightly different at such a bris. Who appoints the mohel as the shaliach? Obviously the baby's father has no obligation in the mitzvah, but the baby is Jewish and requires a bris. Does the mother do it? Or a Jewish male relative? Who says all the lines that the father typically says at the bris? And when the baby is named, how is he named--Ploni Ben Plonit, Ben Avraham, Ben Chris? (yes, I saw below that someone already answered Ben Avraham, I was just writing out the question again).
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amother




Tan


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 10:17 pm
essie14 wrote:
I have several friends whose fathers are not Jewish. They are called to the Torah as Ploni Ben Avraham.


I know someone like this who had a get and his name was Ploni ben Peter (or whatever is non Jewish father was named). He mentioned this to me at my Shabbos table. I found it interesting and am not sure that is always the case.
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amother




Yellow


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 10:44 pm
(amother because this happened in my family)

There are several schools of thought. One is to call the baby Ploni ben Avraham. Another is to call him Ploni ben Plonit. A third is to call him after the mother's father. And a fourth uses the non Jewish father's name.

As for the bris the mother arranges it and appoints the mohel, since of course the baby has to have it done even without his father there. It's analogous to, for example, the father dying (c"v) before the baby is born. The majority of brissim in this situation are not Orthodox and they generally have the mother take the father's part.
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amother




OP


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 10:47 pm
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
(amother because this happened in my family)

There are several schools of thought. One is to call the baby Ploni ben Avraham. Another is to call him Ploni ben Plonit. A third is to call him after the mother's father. And a fourth uses the non Jewish father's name.

As for the bris the mother arranges it and appoints the mohel, since of course the baby has to have it done even without his father there. It's analogous to, for example, the father dying (c"v) before the baby is born. The majority of brissim in this situation are not Orthodox and they generally have the mother take the father's part.


Thank you! Very interesting that with the name issue, basically every possibility has some halachik backing. And I didn't even think of the possibility of being ben the Jewish grandfather's name.
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amother




Chartreuse


Post  Fri, Aug 23 2019, 2:11 am
I went to the Brit of a boy with a Jewish mother and sperm donor, and the mother arranged everything and the name was Ploni Ben Plonit.

I think it would depend on how involved the father is. If the non Jewish father is not really involved, then Ploni Ben Plonit, but if he is very much in the picture, then Ploni Ben Chris etc
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amother




Olive


Post  Fri, Aug 23 2019, 5:49 am
The mohel we used for our sons travelled a lot to do brissim in remote places. Once, he did a bris where he, the mother and the baby were the only Jewish people there. He said he had to do everything...sandek, kvatter, mohel...
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dorothy1




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Aug 23 2019, 7:35 am
My friends husband is Yaakov Ben MothersFather .

I imagine being called Yaakov Ben Timothy would probably be a little embarrassing or at least call a lot of attentions
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amother




Floralwhite


Post  Fri, Aug 23 2019, 7:55 am
dorothy1 wrote:
My friends husband is Yaakov Ben MothersFather .

I imagine being called Yaakov Ben Timothy would probably be a little embarrassing or at least call a lot of attentions


Why would it be embarrassing? There are lots of Jews called Timothy, and indeed every name except for Chris maybe.
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miami85




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Aug 23 2019, 9:39 am
My husband has that situation. His father had a non-Orthodox conversion and is not shomer torah u'mitzvos so we do not consider him a halachic Jew, but he does not know that as fact. He has a "Hebrew name" from his conversion. My husband used that name to be called up to the Torah b/c it has no halachic bearing, but on our kesuba it says his maternal grandfather's name (now that we don't live near him anymore I think he has our current shul call him up by his grandfather's name). Since he knows some basic Hebrew we had someone in-the-know either read that part of our kesuba fast or substitute for his hebrew name.

ftr, should it come up again, we found out that we could use him for the "amida" kibbudim during the bris. It was a slightly touchy subject b/c he knows about "kvater" and we didn't give it to him.
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