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"Where has the Democratic party gone?" - President Trump
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Aug 23 2019, 8:04 pm
Ravenclaw wrote:
So hating a guy for cheating on 3 wives, assaulting minors, makes racist comments, and put his own ego before the country’s needs is irrational?

I never said he doesn’t have some good policies. Some of us aren’t black and white thinkers.

You do realize that the Democratic Party is perfectly fine with all of these things, don't you?

* President Clinton survived impeachment thanks to some of the same Senators serving today. His crime? Lying under oath about his s-xual relationship with a WH intern who was barely older than most families' washer and dryer. But the Democratic Party assured us that a President's private life shouldn't be judged unless it impinged on his ability to do the job.

* Assaulting minors? No evidence there, but do we even want to open the can of worms that Jeff Epstein represented, including relationships with a number of prominent elected officials, many of whom were Democrats?

* Racist comments? Not sure what you're referring to, but given the fact that the Democrats are fine with a governor who dressed in blackface -- at the age of 26! -- somehow I don't think racism is a top priority with them.

* Enormous ego? Granted, Trump has a large ego, but the Democratic Party can hardly complain, having inflicted Obama on us for two terms. Not only did Obama simply hide from Presidential responsibilities, especially in his second term; he nattered on endlessly about his "legacy" and still astounds everyone by using the word "I" almost 50 times in a 10-minute speech.

So, again, there are plenty of reasons you might dislike Trump personally, and even more reasons you shouldn't marry him. But how that adds up to giving the Democratic Party a pass on anti-Semitism, I can't imagine.
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Aug 23 2019, 8:22 pm
marina wrote:
Fox, going silent is not the same thing as choosing not to engage with your position, which we have discussed many many times.

Your last post was all about how stupid it is to ignore the left’s descent into antisemitism well before Trump. That’s simply not something I am interested in debating with you again. Yes the left has its nut jobs (as does the right) and you’ll always attribute more power to them than they have to support your point and we’ll disagree on that and I don’t really care to rehash the same debate we’ve had a million times.

So am I to understand that you fully support the Democratic Party's tolerance for Louis Farrakhan, then? That they're not actually condoning the prominent officials who appear with him; they just haven't felt the need to say anything? Or the candidates who go to kiss Al Sharpton's ring? It's not enough that he played a key role in igniting a pogrom? The Democrats seeking his approval aren't condoning that, after all?

Of course you're not interested in debating this, and of course you would prefer to focus on Trump. That way, you can complain about Trump while ignoring both history and current events. That way, you can sweep aside the significant history of anti-Semitism on the left that pre-dates Trump. That way, you can pretend that it's only a few wing-nuts.

marina wrote:
If you see the thread title, it’s about Trump. So that’s why I waded into this cesspool of obeisance - to say that Trump has in fact worked hard to make support for Israel a partisan issue when it really wasn’t previously. If you want to engage and debate this point, go ahead. Tell me how Trump’s rhetoric hasn’t exacerbated partisanship on Israel and how Israel isn’t a pawn in his little games.

I'll be happy to tell you: Trump didn't exacerbate anything; he simply called a spade a spade. The Democratic Party has set itself on a course where anti-Semitism is ignored, tolerated, and excused. It is following the same path that the Labour Party in the UK has followed.

Was it politic for Trump to point this out? I'm not yet sure. If you want to argue that he shouldn't have said anything, that might be legitimate. But pretending that the increasingly powerful hard-left wing of the Democratic Party is not a haven of anti-Semitism is not borne out by the facts.

marina wrote:
But no, right now I don’t want to debate how anti semitic the left is or how biased universities are or how third wave feminism and intersectionality has ruined America. I’ve heard all that a gazillion times and we will have to agree to disagree.

Except I didn't bring up any of those issues in this thread, did I?

Which makes me think that you know just how weak your defense of the Democratic Party really is.

You are free to hate Trump as much as you wish, though I've never understood why you make the effort. I hated Obama and feared him, but I never got as excited as you seem to over Trump. But hating Trump shouldn't make you defend the course the Democratic Party has embarked on.
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Sat, Aug 24 2019, 9:03 pm
I find it fascinating that my Democrat friends on Facebook, rather than admit that Democrats are anti-Semitic, keep on posting memes about how they're tired of Defending Israel and other Jews.
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Sat, Aug 24 2019, 9:04 pm
I used to be a member of several right-wing Republican groups and I never felt stressed by defending Israel or other Jews. to the contrary everyone else would defend them for me.
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Ravenclaw




 
 
 


Post  Sat, Aug 24 2019, 9:20 pm
Fox wrote:
So why can't they condemn Farrakhan? And who, precisely, are these "good Muslims" with whom the Democratic Party is working? CAIR? Some other Qatari-funded entity?

Btw, no one is "hating" or "banning all Muslims." Simply untrue, and having praised nuance in your previous post, it's a bit disingenuous that you would try to slip in such a blatant distortion.


You are right. I am only human, but that was wrong of me.
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chanatron1000




 
 
 


Post  Sat, Aug 24 2019, 10:16 pm
Two wrongs don't make one right. Anything wrong or immoral done by a politician on one side does not become okay if someone on the other side did it, and if both sides support immoral people, one must condemn both.
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roses




 
 
 


Post  Sat, Aug 24 2019, 10:26 pm
chanatron1000 wrote:
Two wrongs don't make one right. Anything wrong or immoral done by a politician on one side does not become okay if someone on the other side did it, and if both sides support immoral people, one must condemn both.


This.
I find that there is an almost kindergarten level of discourse that goes on anytime someone points out one of Trump's numerous disastrous flaws, actions and policies.

"But he did it first!!"
"But she did it also!!"
"But why are you only picking on me???"
" But Your side also has meanies!!!"

All said in a whiny, cranky voice. Over and over and over

It's impossible to get a Trump supporter to stay focused long enough to actually discuss the issue, before they slip into the whining and distraction
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naturalmom5




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 25 2019, 9:26 am
How is this for focus

Stick with the Democrats at their current trajectory and you will find yourself in an oven or worse
And the world will be laughing
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PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 25 2019, 9:34 am
You know the famous debate line on choosing a better economy over condemning the president's bigotry? As if, ok, you'll vote for the better economy even if it means voting for Trump ergo you are a bigot?

That means I am outsourcing my morality. I wouldn't do it for any secular politician, even a Republican whose talking points I can totally agree with it. But I certainly wouldn't make the Democrats the arbiter of my morality. Yes, I agree that the current president's personal life and public persona is beneath anything we've seen. (Granted, he was a celebrity for a good part of 7 decades before entering politics.) But I will not abide the Democrats dictating my moral choices. It makes me want to vote for Trump in 2020 even without holding my nose, which is the only way I can conceive any frum person voting for him in 2016.
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Laiya




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 25 2019, 10:07 am
Ravenclaw wrote:
I am surprised this didn’t get more likes. You can defend Trumps policies, but no one can deny that the above is true.


Many people saw Obama exactly the same way. He also stoked racial tensions that led to many riots, just to give a similar comparison to the Israel one.

Bottom line, you either don't care about a president's personal characteristics because you like his policies and accomplishments, or you think that personal characteristics outweigh policies and accomplishments--but then your feelings for Trump could not be more negative than your feelings for Obama, in which case you wouldn't have Liked the above post.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 25 2019, 9:50 pm
Ravenclaw wrote:
They most certainly do condemn Muslims who do the above. The difference is, instead of hating and banning all Muslims, they work with the good Muslims to fix these social issues.


Really???

Can you show me some links where a Democrat Politician criticized Islam for executing homosexuals or treating women like slaves?
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itsmeima




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 25 2019, 10:45 pm
roses wrote:
This.
I find that there is an almost kindergarten level of discourse that goes on anytime someone points out one of Trump's numerous disastrous flaws, actions and policies.

"But he did it first!!"
"But she did it also!!"
"But why are you only picking on me???"
" But Your side also has meanies!!!"

All said in a whiny, cranky voice. Over and over and over

It's impossible to get a Trump supporter to stay focused long enough to actually discuss the issue, before they slip into the whining and distraction


Fox wrote:
You do realize that the Democratic Party is perfectly fine with all of these things, don't you?

* President Clinton survived impeachment thanks to some of the same Senators serving today. His crime? Lying under oath about his s-xual relationship with a WH intern who was barely older than most families' washer and dryer. But the Democratic Party assured us that a President's private life shouldn't be judged unless it impinged on his ability to do the job.

* Assaulting minors? No evidence there, but do we even want to open the can of worms that Jeff Epstein represented, including relationships with a number of prominent elected officials, many of whom were Democrats?

* Racist comments? Not sure what you're referring to, but given the fact that the Democrats are fine with a governor who dressed in blackface -- at the age of 26! -- somehow I don't think racism is a top priority with them.

* Enormous ego? Granted, Trump has a large ego, but the Democratic Party can hardly complain, having inflicted Obama on us for two terms. Not only did Obama simply hide from Presidential responsibilities, especially in his second term; he nattered on endlessly about his "legacy" and still astounds everyone by using the word "I" almost 50 times in a 10-minute speech.

So, again, there are plenty of reasons you might dislike Trump personally, and even more reasons you shouldn't marry him. But how that adds up to giving the Democratic Party a pass on anti-Semitism, I can't imagine.
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itsmeima




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 25 2019, 10:53 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Really???

Can you show me some links where a Democrat Politician criticized Islam for executing homosexuals or treating women like slaves?


"Muslims are people who follow or practice Islam, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion. Muslims consider the Quran, their holy book, to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet and messenger Muhammad."

Islam cannot execute, people can.

For starters, I'm sure Mayer Pete does!
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 25 2019, 11:22 pm
itsmeima wrote:
"Muslims are people who follow or practice Islam, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion. Muslims consider the Quran, their holy book, to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet and messenger Muhammad."

Islam cannot execute, people can.

For starters, I'm sure Mayer Pete does!

A little unclear whether you mean that Mayor Pete condemns certain Islamic practices or executes people, but I'm assuming you meant the former. South Bend hasn't become quite that extreme yet.

But here's a quote from Mayor Buttigieg:

Quote:
You know, unfortunately it has become far too acceptable to trade in Islamophobia and of course, cynical politicians have stoked it in order to gain some kind of short term political advantage which only plays into the logic of terrorism that is designed to distance us from our own values and undermine pluralism in our country.


This was in an interview with Mehdi Hasan in The Intercept back in March. If you read the entire piece, bear in mind that Hasan is widely regarded as a mouthpiece of the Qatari government.

So apparently Mayor Pete appears to be more worried about Islamophobia than actual practices within the Muslim world. More interesting to me, though, is that not one of the LGBT media outlets, most of whom have interviewed Buttigieg, have even asked how he would address the issue as President.

However, Mayor Pete has found time to kiss Al Sharpton's ring. Since David Duke has already endorsed Tulsi Gabbard, I guess Al Sharpton was the best he could do.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 25 2019, 11:27 pm
itsmeima wrote:
"Muslims are people who follow or practice Islam, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion. Muslims consider the Quran, their holy book, to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet and messenger Muhammad."

Islam cannot execute, people can.

For starters, I'm sure Mayer Pete does!


OK. Can you give examples of Democrat Policians criticizing Muslim countries for executing Homosexuals or treating women like slaves?
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 25 2019, 11:37 pm
roses wrote:
This.
I find that there is an almost kindergarten level of discourse that goes on anytime someone points out one of Trump's numerous disastrous flaws, actions and policies.

"But he did it first!!"
"But she did it also!!"
"But why are you only picking on me???"
" But Your side also has meanies!!!"

All said in a whiny, cranky voice. Over and over and over

It's impossible to get a Trump supporter to stay focused long enough to actually discuss the issue, before they slip into the whining and distraction

I find this an interesting analysis, since my observation is that there are maybe one or two anti-Trump voices on Imamother who have the slightest interest in policy, disastrous or not.
In fact, in one memorable exchange, I was eventually told by a poster that she didn't really care about policy; she just wanted to vent about Trump.

But how does that relate to whether or not the Democratic Party has lost its way with regard to anti-Semitism? And why did a discussion of that allegation lead anti-Trump posters to start up with a laundry list of their complaints against him?

It seems to me that this is pure Alinsky-esque pivoting: a problem in the political arena is noted; anti-Trump voices post opinions that are about Trump -- not about the problem; when pro-Trump voices attempt to refute the claims, they are accused of changing the subject and/or "whataboutism."

If you can't express concern over the growing acceptance of anti-Semitism on the left in general and the Democratic Party in particular without dragging Trump into the mix, maybe Trump isn't really the problem.
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roses




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Aug 25 2019, 11:50 pm
Fox wrote:
I find this an interesting analysis, since my observation is that there are maybe one or two anti-Trump voices on Imamother who have the slightest interest in policy, disastrous or not.
In fact, in one memorable exchange, I was eventually told by a poster that she didn't really care about policy; she just wanted to vent about Trump.

But how does that relate to whether or not the Democratic Party has lost its way with regard to anti-Semitism? And why did a discussion of that allegation lead anti-Trump posters to start up with a laundry list of their complaints against him?

It seems to me that this is pure Alinsky-esque pivoting: a problem in the political arena is noted; anti-Trump voices post opinions that are about Trump -- not about the problem; when pro-Trump voices attempt to refute the claims, they are accused of changing the subject and/or "whataboutism."

If you can't express concern over the growing acceptance of anti-Semitism on the left in general and the Democratic Party in particular without dragging Trump into the mix, maybe Trump isn't really the problem.


Ok, how's this;

I am concerned about growing anti semitism on the left in general.
I am concerned about any potential anti semitism in the Democratic party.

And I believe Trump is STILL a fool, unstable, somewhat manic, unhinged, and a huge problem! Very Happy
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#BestBubby




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Aug 26 2019, 12:12 am
roses wrote:
Ok, how's this;

I am concerned about growing anti semitism on the left in general.
I am concerned about any potential anti semitism in the Democratic party.

And I believe Trump is STILL a fool, unstable, somewhat manic, unhinged, and a huge problem! Very Happy


Can you give examples of terrible things Trump has done as PRESIDENT?

I see the best economy in 50 years, best friend to Israel, freed Rubashkin and another frum man whose wife is dying of cancer and has 5 young kids.

It is obvious that the Russian accusation was a HOAX to overturn an election -
very scary how Democrats don't accept elections - the will of the people.
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Aug 26 2019, 12:26 am
roses wrote:
Ok, how's this;

I am concerned about growing anti semitism on the left in general.
I am concerned about any potential anti semitism in the Democratic party.

And I believe Trump is STILL a fool, unstable, somewhat manic, unhinged, and a huge problem! Very Happy

I find it surprising that you see only "potential" anti-Semitism, but I suppose we shouldn't make perfect the enemy of good.

How this relates to your opinions on President Trump, I have no clue, except that any thread in the Politics section seems to cause anti-Trumpers to reflexively post how awful they believe Trump to be.
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Fox




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Aug 26 2019, 12:51 am
#BestBubby wrote:
Can you give examples of terrible things Trump has done as PRESIDENT?

I see the best economy in 50 years, best friend to Israel, freed Rubashkin and another frum man whose wife is dying of cancer and has 5 young kids.

It is obvious that the Russian accusation was a HOAX to overturn an election -
very scary how Democrats don't accept elections - the will of the people.

BestBubby, if you are looking for logical, reasoned disagreement on specific policies of the Trump administration, you've come to the wrong place. With the exception of one or two, most of the #RESISTers on Imamother refuse to post links or present any evidence for their claims. Quite a few refuse to discuss policy at all or angrily drop out of the conversation the minute it becomes more complex than just fulminating against Trump.

I recently had an online conversation with Mike Harlow of #WalkAway. He is not necessarily a Trump supporter, but we discussed the fact that we've both talked ourselves into a greater level of support for Trump as a result of refuting hateful assertions. He says a lot of the #WalkAway people are in that position.

So if you can coax better discussions into being, you're a better woman than I.
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