Thoughts on this? | Imamother

amother

Ecru

Mon, Aug 26 2019, 4:51 pm

My thought is that these types of attitudes are accepted until a specific outbreak occurs and people don't attempt to curb it.

I gave my kids each one dose of MMR after the outbreak began. (nothing else)

Unfortunately, the prevailing outlook is "all or nothing," so I'm in the same boat as anti-vaxxers who passed around measles to their classmates and neighbors.

southernbubby

Mon, Aug 26 2019, 5:22 pm

Some statistics are taken out of context. We don't know what was considered a vaccine injury, why it was reported, and if it resolved.
I think that people were more tolerant before they were told that it was the fault of the government and big pharma that infants were catching measles and we should blame them rather than the anti-vaxers. People who are forced to protect infants from people who would endanger them to make a point don't have much use for anti-vax propaganda.

southernbubby

Mon, Aug 26 2019, 11:02 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So many more auto immune issues nowadays than in my parents and grandparents days Sad

Not sure if there actually are more autoimmune disorders or if we hear about them more today than was possible back then. I remember hearing stories of type one diabetes, Parkinson's, and various cancers that happened to the generation who got very few vaccines. ALS has been around for a long time. The internet makes us very aware but it doesn't mean that these diseases are new or are more prevalent.

amother

Plum

Mon, Aug 26 2019, 11:19 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

actually in your grandparents' and parents' day there were more childhood deaths and shorter life spans

Like for instance, my dd has celiac, in our grandparents days people died from it because they had no idea what it was and how to treat it. B"H today my dd is living a healthy life with celiac disease.

amother

Amethyst

Mon, Aug 26 2019, 11:39 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So many more auto immune issues nowadays than in my parents and grandparents days Sad

amother [ Black ] wrote:

actually in your grandparents' and parents' day there were more childhood deaths and shorter life spans

The second quote is true; the first may also be true too but requires more study to find out to what degree the higher numbers are due to higher survival rates as a different poster pointed out.

But it could be that both statements are true and that’s something that a lot of people have a hard time getting their heads around.

southernbubby

Tue, Aug 27 2019, 12:13 am

We obviously have more sophisticated ways to diagnose autoimmune disease then we had in the past.
Dementia may have increased due to longer life.
As many people have pointed out, if a vaccine can cause autoimmune disease, so can the disease itself.

amother

Bronze

Tue, Aug 27 2019, 6:26 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So many more auto immune issues nowadays than in my parents and grandparents days Sad

My great grandmother died of diabetes, my great grandfather died of cancer.
My great grandfather died young because they couldn't treat it. My great grandmother lived longer than she would have otherwise because she was part of the early trials in insulin, but still didn't live till old age. All four of their children lived into their 90s.

amother

Coral

Tue, Aug 27 2019, 4:09 pm

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

That's because most exemptions are "all or nothing." Here in NY we weren't allowed to pick and choose. The law was all or nothing and therefore the outlook became such.

amother

Coral

Tue, Aug 27 2019, 4:18 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

actually in your grandparents' and parents' day there were more childhood deaths and shorter life spans

Nopes. My parents are in their 50-60s. Can you show me that there were more childhood deaths in the days when they were growing up? Possibly shorter life expectancy for their parents, but they are still alive BH in 2019 with the current life expectancy.

From their days to now, they say there are many more kids with asthma, allergies, IBD (crohn's/colitis), diabetes, eczema. Obviously their saying so doesn't make it be so.

You can't compare 1900's, 1920's and even 1940's to the 1970's and on.

amother

Khaki

Tue, Aug 27 2019, 4:58 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

My mom, born in 1935, had Colitis all her adult life, she had diabetes before age 50. Im sure there were plenty other illnesses back then too. Plus, many girls in my class, probably had ASD, but were just classified as DUMBELLS!!

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, Aug 27 2019, 5:11 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

My father, brother and daughter all have crohns.
My grandfather had a horrible stomach issues. In retrospect he probably had something too but was never diagnosed. He ate so simple. It’s possible it’s caused by the American diet so different then Europe. But he still ate like Europe.
My grandmothers grandmother died of cancer. Kids died in infancy of all sorts of diseases.

Auto immune, cancer etc aren’t new.

And to blame it exclusively on shots is so short sited. So much of the world has changed in the past 100 years besides for shots.
WiFi
Cell phones
Radar
Plastic
Formula
Aluminum
Microwaves
Food/diet
GMO
Food colorings
Medicines
Ultra sounds

And do much more.

Why pick shots as the culprit

DaisyDoodle

Tue, Aug 27 2019, 6:24 pm

Why Pick Shots as the culprit? Because shots are given to healthy people/children as a possible preventative, when there is no evidence that the shot is safer than the natural disease. According to halacha, we are not allowed to use a medical intervention unless the benefits outweigh the risks. The benefits have not been established; the risks have been well documented and acknowledged by our government.

southernbubby

Tue, Aug 27 2019, 6:42 pm

DaisyDoodle wrote:

Numerous healthy children died from VPDs before vaccines.
So far, the majority of rabbonim favor vaccines and some of the most chereidi yeshivas have a 100% (or close) vaccination rate.
You are labeling those who vaccinate as sinners.

southernbubby

Tue, Aug 27 2019, 6:51 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

Totally true. I mean, if you don't consider protection against fatal diseases to be a benefit. Banging head

Isn't a bit of a crazy reason to blame vaccines and totally discount other possibilities? I mean, healthy people are constantly exposed to carcinogens and other toxic chemicals but they will blame shots no matter what