Thoughts on this? | Imamother

JoyInTheMorning

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 3:36 pm

#BestBubby, I am going to cut and paste what I just wrote in the Medical Exemptions thread (where you made other incorrect statements, including the false claim that in the 1960s and 1970s, babies didn't get vaccines).

You keep asking this question [about why the US isn't doing a vaxed vs unvaxed study].

The reason we haven't answered is that we are smart enough to be humble and know when an issue is much more complex than it would seem.

As it happens, I spend my professional life in research -- though in nothing connected to biology -- and as it happens, I spend a fair amount of time designing and executing evaluations. I know that it's complex. It's very easy to design a study wrong. It's not as simple as you're making it out to be.

Instead of pasting the same tired posts over and over, read the Denmark study paper at https://annals.org/aim/fullart.....ort-study. I have only read it casually. I have not studied it. But even from my quick reading, I can see that designing the study was not simple. It is clear from the first few pages that they had done a previous study that also showed no correlation between MMR and autism (which was the question that was of interest after the Wakefield study), but that there had been criticisms of the methodology. They worked on fixing these methodological flaws in this study.

This is not something that is trivial to do. If you think it is trivial, write a paper at the level of detail of the linked paper explaining how you would design this study. Post it here. Send it to the CDC and NiH.

It's not that easy to do. I know enough about myself to know that I don't begin to have enough knowledge to design such a study. If you think you're so brilliant that you can design a study without any training in epidemiology and statistics, go ahead. Design the study.

You seem to be implying that the US government has all these statistics and can just pull the numbers out. And that if they aren't sharing the numbers, they must be hiding something about these evil vaccines. But that is a ridiculous accusation. First, we know from the past that when vaccines' adverse effects were discovered, the vaccines were changed -- for example, DPT was changed to DTaP and Tdap; they stopped giving OPV and switched to IPV. Second, if vaccine makers are in it for the money, they would be all too delighted to develop a new vaccine using government research grants, get new patents, and profit from the new sales. They are not doing that. Third, the government has no interest in having more autistic children. Autism isn't a money maker at all for physicians. And it's a great strain on educational budgets. There's a greater need for special ed teachers and ABA practitioners, but they don't make huge amounts of money.

So stop getting all hysterical. If you're serious about learning more, start by learning how to design experiments and studies. There are textbooks on epidemiology. You can start there.

#BestBubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 4:18 pm

JoyInTheMorning, people have been asking for Vax vs UnVax study for a long time.
The CDC refuses to do such a study. Two Congressmen proposed a bill to FORCE
CDC to do a Vax vs UnVax Study. But since Pharmaceutical Industry is the biggest
"donor" (briber) of congress, that bill never went anywhere.

There have been small studies showing unvaccinated children have waaaay less autism.
and less allergies, asthma and learning disabilities.

There have been reports that the Amish who don't vaccinate don't have autism.
What was the government response? Have government officials go door to door
pressuring and intimidating the Amish to start vaccinating. The result? There are now
some Amish children with autism - although far less than the general population because even the Amish who vaccinate do far less - often only the mmr.

We have seen this before with smoking. The Tobacco Industry hired Scientists to deny
that smoking causes cancer, to chant that "Correlation does not equal Causation".

The Scientists LIED. Smoking does cause cancer. How do we know?
Smoker vs Non-Smoker Studies.

The same type of study that the CDC refuses to do!

You are a researcher yet you could not answer me why if the autism rate of a very large number of 100% unvaccinated kids (10,000 or more) would be 1:1,000 why that would not be very strong evidence that vaccines cause autism.

Here is more evidence:

An independent investigator looked at the medical records of 3,345 patients of a pediatrician, Dr. Thomas, who recommends much fewer vaccines than CDC, Vaccine Friendly Plan.

Of 715 100% unvaccinated children, only ONE had autism. rate: 1:715
Of the partially vaccinated children, 1:440 had autism

Those vaccinated per CDC schedule: 1:45 have autism

#BestBubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 4:22 pm

nchr wrote:

There is a frum woman in NY should recently became blind during this measles outbreak. Is this acceptable to you?

Since CDC Quadrupled (4X) the vaccine schedule in 1990 there are MILLIONS of chronically sick children. nchr is that acceptable to you?

1:5 teens had episode of mental illness
1:6 children are learning disabled
1:6 children are allergic (can be FATAL)
1:8 children have IBS
1:10 children have ADHD
1:13 children have asthma (can be FATAL)
1:45 children have AUTISM and keeps increasing
1:100 children have Epilepsy /Seizure Disorder
1:250 children have Tourettes Syndrome
1:400 children have Diabetes
1:775 babies die of SIDS
1:1,000 children have Celiac Disease
1:5,560 children have CANCER

ZERO deaths from Measles, Mumps or Chickenpox (in USA).
432 deaths reported to VAERS in 2016

#BestBubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 4:35 pm

nchr wrote:

There is a frum woman in NY should recently became blind during this measles outbreak. Is this acceptable to you?

nchr, 1:8,000 people are killed in car accidents each year.
1:160 people are PERMANENTLY injured in car accidents each year.

Is this acceptable to you? Do you go in a car? Do you allow your child to go in a car?

Please explain to me why you are hysterical in fear of measles that kill ZERO per year
in USA and you have not the slightest fear on getting in car that kills 40,000 a year.
And cars PERMANENTLY injure 2 MILLION people a year. And yet you have zero fear of cars.
Does that make sense???

The answer is because Government Propaganda has brainwashed you into fearing measles but you don't fear cars which are a million times more likely to kill you because the government did not train you to fear cars.

Last edited by #BestBubby on Sun, Sep 01 2019, 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

nchr

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 4:37 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Those statistics have nothing to do with vaccines - they are unrelated and caused by other factors (I.e. genetics, socioeconomic class, upbringing, environmental factors, etc.). Regardless, 432 deaths reported to VAERS in 2016 out of millions of vaccines is still statistically better than 1 in 500 chance of blindness or 1 in 1,000 chance of death from the measles. However, statistically, the chance of a severe reaction to a vaccine is 1 in 1 million or 3 million. How can a person be so ignorant and delusion to actually blame everything on vaccines. The only children I am personally acquainted with who have ADHD are not vaccinated - and are the children of hyperactive parents. Also, isn't treatable childhood diabetes better than death? Do you realize how many people died before modern medicine. And with all of this, I still believe in your right to choose, just still feel the need to correct your misinformation.

I'm not afraid of measles. I've never posted one fear mongering comment on this site. I do not people who are severe scarred because of measles infection though, which BH we and our children do not need to deal with.

#BestBubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 4:56 pm

nchr wrote:

Per HHS only 1-10% of severe adverse events are reported to vaers.
So the 432 deaths following vaccines is 10x - 100x more!

Per the CDC website, before the Measles vaccine there were about 4 million cases of measles and about 400 deaths. That a death rate of 1:10,000 - not 1:1,000.

Saying a severe reaction to vaccines is 1 in a million is Fake News. It is based on how many children got an award from vaccine court vs how many doses of vaccines were given.

But most vaccine injured children never sue in vaccine court. Many are not aware of vaccine court - and there is a very short statute of limitations. It is very stressful and time consuming - the average case takes 9 years, and the awards are not that high. The government judges denies most claims - no jury allowed. So the 1 in a million serious injury statistic is fake.

nchr

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 5:08 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Many reactions reported to VEARS are not actually vaccine induced. As for the second comment, I've addressed this many times, including to you. The death rate "appeared" lower but it was probably higher for reasons that are very easy to understand. Please go back to areas in this thread where I've addressed it, as well as in other threads.

nchr

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 5:10 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Many reactions reported to VEARS are not actually vaccine induced. Also, minor reactions may be less likely to be reported, but serious ones like death are not underreported. As for the second comment, I've addressed this many times, including to you. The death rate "appeared" lower but it was probably higher for reasons that are very easy to understand. Please go back to areas in this thread where I've addressed it, as well as in other threads.

#BestBubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 6:21 pm

nchr wrote:

When a baby dies soon after vaccination it is not reported to VAERS but classified
as SIDS. SIDS means "we don't know why the baby died" but even if the baby died
within hours of vaccination it is NOT reported to VAERS it is called "SIDS".

A study "Evidence Concerning Pertussis Vaccines and Deaths Classified as Sudden Infant Death Syndrome" linked SIDS to Pertussis vaccine.

"The Miller/Goldman study explains, “Torch found that two-thirds of babies who had died from SIDS had been vaccinated against DPT (diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus toxoid) prior to death. Of these, 6.5% died within 12 hours of vaccination; 13% within 24 hours; 26% within 3 days; and 37%, 61%, and 70% within 1, 2, and 3 weeks, respectively. Torch also found that unvaccinated babies who died of SIDS did so most often in the fall or winter while vaccinated babies died most often at 2 and 4 months- the same ages when initial doses of DPT were given to infants.” SIDS is listed as an adverse event of vaccine insert.

Do you think the doctor who gave the vaccine is going to admit the vaccine caused injury or death? The doctor will almost always dismiss it as a "coincidence" and NOT report to VAERS.

Here is an article by an Emergency-Room Nurse who worked in many hospitals and said she never saw any doctor or nurse report adverse events after vaccination to VAERS - even though the child was rushed to the emergency room, so it was "serious".
https://www.facebook.com/vacci.....2787/

amother

Bronze

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 7:39 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Saying 2/3 had been vaccinated is just saying 2/3 were more than 2 months old. That's not surprising at all. The shot is given at 2,4 and 6 months of age, so statistically, saying sids occurs within a month after the shot isn't so significant, because half of the time most likely for sids is after a shot! (Risk decreases around 6-7 months)

And the unvaccinated babies dying of SIDS in the winter are catching the diseases that they're not immunized for!