Quotes from the Education Thread

amother

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 8:38 pm

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

OP - anyone who is willing to think for themselves realized the correlation between the two a while back but as you see, the vast majority won’t, so maybe you are just wasting your time.

I'm ok. I don't think it's a waste of time if even one person starts to see the bigger picture here, even if they refrain from posting on this thread. Of course it's the more obnoxious ones who post their oblivion here.

amother

Khaki

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 8:40 pm

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

The correlation is people have strong opinions on topics they care about. wooppe dee dooo.

The correlation is that the government started cracking down on controlling how we educate our kids at the same time that the government started controlling vaccines to a major degree.
The lawsuits and trials followed the same timeline. The anti and pros followed the same fight.

The correlation is that neither one is so bad in itself but both are about government overreach and about religious liberties being pushed to the side.

The correlation is that we had schools and shuls kicking out many kids and adults for choosing one path over the other and now the government is trying to close down schools who chose one path over the other.

You denied our children a chinuch, now hashem is showing you what happens when you side with the state and push to end religious liberties.

The machers in Agudah finally see the correlation. A bit too late but they’re finally waking up.

Yaffed is talking about taking the battle to new jersey, NJ legislature are in the process of removing the religious exemption for vaccines too.

Its either we stand up and fight both or we loose both.

If you fail to notice the connection then all I can say is that we as klal yisroel need a true tikkun and only moshiach will restore peace and harmony amongst us.

amother

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 8:49 pm

In addition to amother Khaki:

The correlation is about creating a nanny state, where children can't be raised by parents as they, the parents, deem fit. Children belong to the state, medically, educationally. It's about dumbing down and removing rights from parents.

The correlation is in the fight, calling upon the people who are actually in the trenches to express their expert opinion, and yet their voices will be silenced by the Establishment.

The correlation is that in both cases, the Establishment is pretending to "care" about our children when in fact there are greater agendas driving these policies.

amother

Amber

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 8:51 pm

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

Right. Welcome to America - the land of opportunity - play by the rules.

amother

Khaki

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 8:52 pm

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

WHAT IS THE BIGGER PICTURE??? Spell it out for me. I'm obnoxious.

That we are in galus and that we should all stand together and stop fighting and hating each other.
That first you denied some kids a torah education and encouraged the state to infringe upon our religious liberties and now the state is not asking you and is infringing on more religious liberties.

The state should never tell us how to Interpret our torah. You guys told the state that RE has nothing to do with religion. That is not their business. They should not be touching anything related to religion. Its a slippery slope.

Just because your rabbi says you can use an eiruv and my rabbi says you can’t use the eiruv, you still should not be siding with a government who wants to take away your right to build an eiruv.
Very simple and same thing here. You shouldve all stood together and said no we will not allow the state to touch religious freedom and parental choice even if you are fully for vaccines.
All of a sudden you're all screaming religion. Where were you until now when religion was trampled on in the name of public health?!

When metzitza bpeh was being fought everyone understood that the dept of health does not override religious liberties. That same dept of health was involved on the metzitza bpeh scandal. You believed them now. Why not then?

Just because you lack emunah in hashem you were willing to give up you religious liberties on a golden platter.

Well the state took it to the next level. I happen to think they are right. All kids deserve a basic education. But they have no right to infringe upon our rights.
America was founded on the principles of people choosing their path in life. What changed?!?

Very simple indeed.

amother

Amber

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 8:52 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Who is the Establishment. I asked you to clearly spell this out for me.

leah233

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 9:04 pm

Being that like half the quotes are being taken from me I'll weigh on this thread.

I am very pro vax but oppose the government lifting religious exemptions or forcing vaccinations.

However I don't think the frum community is in the position to use it's ever diminishing political power to fight for something as politically unpopular as allowing unvaccinated children into schools. Even if the parents are claiming religious exemptions

Nor do I see how the frum community can take up such a cause when the frum schools themselves aren't accepting unvaccinated children. Again this is an issue of choice. The anti vaxxers also cannot force anyone to take in their children.

amother

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 9:10 pm

leah233 wrote:

Being that like half the quotes are being taken from me I'll weigh on this thread.

I am very pro vax but oppose the government lifting religious exemptions or forcing vaccinations.

However I don't think the frum community is in the position to use it's ever diminishing political power to fight for something as politically unpopular as allowing unvaccinated children into schools. Even if the parents are claiming religious exemptions

Nor do I see how the frum community can take up such cause when the frum schools themselves aren't accepting unvaccinated children. Again this is an issue of choice. The anti vaxxers also cannot force anyone to take in their children.

The frum community should always be on the pro-choice side regardless of the issue.

The frum community's ever diminishing political power is rooted in our fractured and segmented presentation. Matters of religious choice, whether we agree with that particular issue or not, whether it's our religion or not, should have us ALL united in defense of choice.

The schools can separately make their own decision, as many have done. But we need to be against all GOVERNMENT mandates infringing on an individual's rights.

amother

Chocolate

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 9:15 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Schools are actually not allowed to make their own decisions. There was a court case in the 5 towns that a school wanted to reject an unvaccinated kid and the education commissioner demanded that the kid be let back in. The education commissioner went too far in the other direction there.

amother

Amber

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 10:35 pm

leah233 wrote:

Which makes it crystal clear that vaccination is not a Jewish religious issue to anyone looking at this.

Its a shame the religious exemption was removed. Its a pity it was abused.

southernbubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 11:10 pm

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

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Schools are actually not allowed to make their own decisions. There was a court case in the 5 towns that a school wanted to reject an unvaccinated kid and the education commissioner demanded that the kid be let back in. The education commissioner went too far in the other direction there.

There was a frum couple who sued a frum school for not letting in a non vaccinated child and the judge threw the case out because a religious school doesn't have to accept religious exemptions.

southernbubby

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 11:15 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I actually agree with you.

southernbubby

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 12:49 am

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

Khaki, a shul that I am familiar with sent out a notice before Pesach that due to the measles outbreak, they were requesting that anyone who was not vaccinated by choice should not daven there. The anti-vaxers came anyway.

A school that I am familiar with had several pregnant teachers who threatened to quit rather than teach non vaccinated children. The school wasn't in a position to replace the teachers. They had no choice but to ask the non vaccinated children to stay home during the outbreak.

Schools have a right to have health policies in place or else people will send sick kids to school.

amother

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 1:04 am

Quote:

Did it really need all this? Of course, there needs to be regulations detailing the law. But did they have to include ~~dance and theater~~ hepatits b and tetanus as a must for ~~all private~~ admittance to schools? Come on! If they were worried about kids being ~~able to get on in life~~ healthy and being safe from measles , there are plenty of ways to ensure ~~they get the necessary skills~~ that without forcing all these extras.

Where do you think we can draw the line so that ~~private schools~~ medical choice remain autonomous, while government ensures than no child is being woefully neglected?

What's wrong with regulating the basic necessities and leaving anything beyond that to the school and ~~tuition paying~~ parents?