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Not leaving water out overnight???
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Goldie613




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 03 2019, 3:35 am
Hello one and all -

As a kid I remember hearing that there was some problem with leaving water out overnight, though I've long since lost track of the details. Something about evil spirits or snakes or something dangerous?

I'm pretty sure that I had heard/learned that it's a Jewish idea, but I have yet to track down any details (searching online has produced a very odd bag of mixed results).

Does anyone have any clue what this might be about? If this is a halacha, does anyone know of any sources for it? Also, what does "overnight" mean? All night? An hour? 5 minutes?

This is what I get for only half remembering something from childhood What

Thanks!
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Tue, Sep 03 2019, 4:15 am
Following.

(I also half-remember something but I don't know what!)
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Tue, Sep 03 2019, 4:18 am
Did you see this from "Mi Yodeya"?

"The details of this prohibition are recorded in the Tur (YD 116) and earlier by the Rambam (Rotzeiach 11:6-15). You may be interested particularly in Law #7 there:

ואלו הן המשקין האסורין משום גילוי--המים, והיין ואפילו מזוג, ואפילו התחיל להשתנות טעמו לחומץ, והחלב, והדבש, והציר; אבל שאר כל המשקין--אין מקפידין על גילויין, שאין בעלי ארס שותין מהן.‏
These are the liquids which are prohibited when uncovered: water, wine even when diluted and even when beginning to taste like vinegar, milk, honey, and brine. But other liquids, we aren't careful about their being covered for poisonous creatures don't drink from them."

And this from "Din Online"?

"Uncovered Water
August 2nd, 2010 62

What are the exact halachos of mayim megulim? How long can the water be uncovered? How large can the opening be for it to become assur? Is it only overnight?

Answer:

For those who are particular concerning the prohibition of uncovered water, water should not be left unconvered form the time it takes for a snake to travel from the handle of the vessel (or from the nearby vicinity), to drink of the water or liquid, and to return to its hiding place — a very short time. The prohibition applies to an opening the size of the little finger of a newly born baby. It applies not only overnight, but even in the day (Rambam, Rotze’ach U-Shemiras Hanefesh, chap. 11).

There are many more halachos of uncovered liquids, such as which liquids the prohibition applies to, and other circumstances in which the prohibition does not apply.

Many poskim (including Shulchan Aruch) rule that in places where snakes are uncommon there is no need for caution regarding this matter, though other authorities rule that one should nonetheless fulfill the instructions of Chazal."
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rivkam




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 03 2019, 4:19 am
I remember that also from childhood. From what I remember the source was in the gemara and it something about it being dangerous as a snake could have gotten into the water during the night.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 03 2019, 6:04 am
If the snake is venomous, and it takes a drink, there's a chance that some venom dripped into the water.

I've absentmindedly left liquids overnight, and I almost always find a bug or two floating in it the next day. If I didn't check I would have swallowed a bug! Surprised

I'm not so sure we worry about evil spirits in these days, but in general it's just a good idea, and safe food handling to keep things covered. Keep liquids in the fridge, or at least with a tight lid on them.
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Goldie613




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 3:02 am
amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:
Did you see this from "Mi Yodeya"?

"The details of this prohibition are recorded in the Tur (YD 116) and earlier by the Rambam (Rotzeiach 11:6-15). You may be interested particularly in Law #7 there:

ואלו הן המשקין האסורין משום גילוי--המים, והיין ואפילו מזוג, ואפילו התחיל להשתנות טעמו לחומץ, והחלב, והדבש, והציר; אבל שאר כל המשקין--אין מקפידין על גילויין, שאין בעלי ארס שותין מהן.‏
These are the liquids which are prohibited when uncovered: water, wine even when diluted and even when beginning to taste like vinegar, milk, honey, and brine. But other liquids, we aren't careful about their being covered for poisonous creatures don't drink from them."

And this from "Din Online"?

"Uncovered Water
August 2nd, 2010 62

What are the exact halachos of mayim megulim? How long can the water be uncovered? How large can the opening be for it to become assur? Is it only overnight?

Answer:

For those who are particular concerning the prohibition of uncovered water, water should not be left unconvered form the time it takes for a snake to travel from the handle of the vessel (or from the nearby vicinity), to drink of the water or liquid, and to return to its hiding place — a very short time. The prohibition applies to an opening the size of the little finger of a newly born baby. It applies not only overnight, but even in the day (Rambam, Rotze’ach U-Shemiras Hanefesh, chap. 11).

."


So the concern was for snakes, not tumah or dibbuks or something?

How would that part about even a short while being a problem work? What about pitchers of water at a simcha or a cup of water in the table? Or was this only meant as a problem if the water was left unobserved for a while?
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amother




Crimson


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 3:17 am
Per my MIL, the shadim get into your water at night and bring their Tumah with them.
B"H the Poland spring bottles have covers.
(The covers also prevent spills)
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 4:07 am
To my knowledge, the YY holds that only wine uncovered is a problem in the modern home - ruach raa, not snakes.


Personally, I'd also be worried about snakes, but thankfully we have cats, so while my superstitious Ashkie attitudes still won't drink overnight water, I don't think it's a problem for anyone following the Yalkut Yosef.
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singleagain




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 7:30 am
I have a vague memory of hearing that the snake problem isn't a problem today. But I can't remember why
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amother




Blush


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 8:16 am
I am pretty sure that I read this in the Shulchan Aruch a few years ago. I cover or dump out things left overnight, but I don't worry about things during the day. I never officially learned anything about it, though! We don't have any snakes in our 4th floor apartment in Brooklyn, and I guess I assumed that these evil spirits were night time ones, lol.
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 9:15 am
singleagain wrote:
I have a vague memory of hearing that the snake problem isn't a problem today. But I can't remember why


When is the last time you found a viper in your washing cup?

This halacha was good common sense, back in the day. But since neither you nor I live in a goatskin tent, I'm pretty sure we're safe. I do know people whom live in tents and caves, and when I visit, the standard pattern of living is quite different.
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imasoftov




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 9:25 am
amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:
Many poskim (including Shulchan Aruch) rule that in places where snakes are uncommon there is no need for caution regarding this matter, though other authorities rule that one should nonetheless fulfill the instructions of Chazal."

I'm curious how a posek who follows the first opinion goes about deciding if venomous snakes are common or not in a particular location. I'm also curious what rulings based on this have been given and in what locations.
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zaq




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 9:28 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
If the snake is venomous, and it takes a drink, there's a chance that some venom dripped into the water.

I've absentmindedly left liquids overnight, and I almost always find a bug or two floating in it the next day. If I didn't check I would have swallowed a bug! Surprised

I'm not so sure we worry about evil spirits in these days, but in general it's just a good idea, and safe food handling to keep things covered. Keep liquids in the fridge, or at least with a tight lid on them.


This. Use common sense. And it makes sense to cover vessels containing anything you may want to eat or drink later. You may not have to worry much about venomous snakes but leaving food or even water lying around , is an open invitation to bugs and rodents of all kinds.
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amother




Violet


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 10:02 am
Nobody else leaves a glass of water on their nightstands?
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 10:04 am
amother [ Violet ] wrote:
Nobody else leaves a glass of water on their nigh be wd be wdc be wdw sbb BC wdsb BC wds BC wds bwds b
wds BC w s BC w s bd w s s wc b bd wcb wx
be wdc be wdc s wd b bd wsctstandssss?


I usually keep a water bottle by my bed. But again, given that the original reason for this halacha is now possibly moot, there is no universal opinion. My kav, the Yalkut Yosef, would be perfectly fine with a cup of water left out overnight. You do you.
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Mameh Shaineh




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 11:56 am
amother [ Violet ] wrote:
Nobody else leaves a glass of water on their nightstands?


I put a tissue on top of it.
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heidi




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 12:09 pm
Isn't matzah made with מים שלנו?
Water left out overnight?
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 12:19 pm
heidi wrote:
Isn't matzah made with מים שלנו?
Water left out overnight?


Which is guarded constantly.
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imasoftov




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 2:24 pm
imasoftov wrote:
I'm curious how a posek who follows the first opinion goes about deciding if venomous snakes are common or not in a particular location. I'm also curious what rulings based on this have been given and in what locations.

I remembered that Tosafot says that snakes are not found "where we live". I searched for that, and found it in Avoda Zara 35a, divrei hamatchil חדא. Most of the Tosafists lived in France and Germany, there are (today, things could have been different 800 or so years ago) a few species of venomous snakes in France and Germany. I found here that there are seven species of venomous snakes in Israel, three of which are dangerous to people. But I didn't find if the ones in France and Germany have venom that affects people, or perhaps the likelihood of encountering a dangerous snake is sufficiently higher in Israel. Still, I wonder how someone tells, in some other part of the world, whether the incidence of snakes is high enough to forbid uncovered water.

I found this, I didn't find the name of the blogger but he writes on the "About" page that he studies Daf Yomi,
Quote:
Snakes don't release their venom unless they are threatened or hunting.

Snakes use suction when they drink water. Their mouths are not open, which is needed when they are expelling venom.

Snake venom is not dangerous when drunk.

(If somehow venom did get into the water, it would be greatly diluted.)

On the other hand Rambam writes in Hilchot Rotzeiach 11.14 that there was a case where someone was killed by drinking snake venom. I also found an article saying "Venoms are generally not toxic if swallowed, and must be injected under the skin (by snakes, spiders, etc.) into the tissues that are normally protected by skin in order to be toxic. However, we do NOT recommend drinking venom!" and this by a former snake breeder who says " If you drink most types of snake venom, little will happen to you, provided you don’t have any microabrasions or cuts in your mouth". In short, we've got one source saying it is dangerous, one that it isn't, and one that it depends on the condition of one's mouth.

tl;dr: ask your own rabbi.
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happy12




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 04 2019, 11:21 pm
My son's rabbi in camp ohr shraga said during a shuir, though leaving water uncovered Is not really an issue nowadays in our sealed homes, in camp ohr shraga you must be careful as Ulster County is one of the few places in northeastern US that has poisonous snakes.
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