Most ridiculous item on school supply list?

watergirl

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 7:57 am

chanatron1000 wrote:

Pencils are an outdated technology. Students should be encouraged to use erasable pens instead. (They are more expensive to purchase, but they don't need to be sharpened. Pencils need to be sharpened often, and the tip breaks off while sharpening, so you can lose inches in minutes.)

OTs will tell you that they have seen children’s skills decreasing and more kids needing their services with the increased usage of pens and markers and decreased usage of pencils and crayons. Properly using a pencil, knowing how much pressure to use, how hard to push (enough pressure so you could see the markings, not too much to tear a hole through the pages etc.) all of the actual mechanics of the skill of writing with a pencil cannot be achieved with a pen. And the skills are required for life. Looking at a pencil as outdated technology is a gross misunderstanding of the actual skills that children must develop.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:11 am

Sleepymama wrote:

We never had a list of school supplies growing up. Before the school year we would buy what we thought we needed. Every year I would use a different system -one year a big binder with dividers, another year lots of notebooks and a separate folder for handouts etc. I remember it was fun to choose what I wanted to write in each year. Same with whatever I put in my pencil case. We got to choose what we wanted to bring. One girl was into highlighting so she had a bunch of different highlighters, another girl liked to color coordinate with colored pens, some girls could care less and just used whatever they had. It was very relaxed and open. Why are the schools micromanaging every detail of our kid's lives????

I think as kids get older, this is how it naturally becomes. I also remember switching off every year because I desperately believe in being organized, but somehow organization fell to the wayside not too far in the year, so I would convince myself that the opposite (binder vs notebook, or notebook and matching folder vs binder) would be better the next year Wink

With younger children though, a lot of school is teaching "soft skills" aka executive functioning and time management and all that which is just as crucial (if not more in this age of Google where you can search up an answer but not a life skill....) and as such they want some uniformity to be able to aid the students in this. Boys, take out your red folder and put this homework sheet in there. Girls, it's time to take out your chumash binder. And in the younger years the students learn that at transition times (beginning/end of class) they need to find what they need for that class, and take it out. But until around 13, the autonomy for quick executive functioning to be able to seamlessly remember for XYZ class I need ABC material isn't really developed yet on average. Sure a 10 year old can remember math has a green notebook, but it might take an extra minute of connecting the dots in her brain at which point the teacher has already started the daily math quiz or whatever. By postponing the expectation for students to choose their own method of organization until middle school (or dare I even say high school for those 'late bloomers'), it not only helps the teacher but the student to not be lost in the jungle of expectations we give them when we send them to school for 8 hours a day with a dual curriculum and work that needs to be brought home (some of which should remain, some of which should be returned)....they can focus on whatever is really age appropriate at the time, and not on other things only to find out that the system they came up with isn't working for them and then they have lost the year.

I will freely admit that I have had 4th graders need a red plastic folder for homework and I felt my 4th graders (or some of them) could easily relate to an orange folder just the same. I remember one year, I put red electric tape in strips over the orange folder and wrote on the folder "this is a red folder" because I had a surplus of plastic folders and didn't really want to buy more just because I was out of red Smile

I would not have done that for a first or second grader though. And I wouldn't have done it for every 4th grader. I just knew my child that year and her ability to not get flustered. Teacher was fine with it too Smile

chanatron1000

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 2:35 pm

watergirl wrote:

Crayons are good, but pencils are simply too dangerous. The points can embed themselves into the skin. Also, the skills used for a pencil are not that different from those used when operating a ballpoint pen, fountain pen, rollerball pen, felt-tip pen, or dip pen, all of which are safer, more readable, and more pleasant to use than a pencil.

chanatron1000

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 2:36 pm

teachkids wrote:

Erasable pens don't write or erase well.

I've had erasable pens that erased better than pencils.

watergirl

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 2:43 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

Re: danger - I cant tell if you are kidding or not. After many years as a teacher and a mom, I have never seen a pencil injury. What are your kids doing that causes them to injure themselves with a pencil? Can it happen? I suppose. Is that a reason to keep pencils out of the classroom? No way!

Re: skills - you are incorrect. Writing with a pen vs. a pencil is a different experience and literally requires different pressure, grip, etc. I am not making this up, I have spoken about this to a number of OTs because one once mentioned it to me - she was bemoaning the new trends in giving kids pens at a younger age, trading markers for crayons, etc. so I've looked into it.

chanatron1000

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 2:49 pm

I have seen several pencil injuries, and different pens require different grips and pressure. Children were fine before pencils were invented.

gamanit

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 2:53 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

I have seen several pencil injuries, and different pens require different grips and pressure. Children were fine before pencils were invented.

Were they? Do you have any idea how old pencils are? Prior to wood encased pencils kids mostly used sticks of lead that were cast in a groove on the desk. Were wax tablets that much fun to use? Kids generally didn't start writing using dip pens.

chanatron1000

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 2:56 pm

gamanit wrote:

Lead-stick pencils have more in common with crayons than with wood case pencils.

Also, the quality of modern pencils is very strange and unpredictable. Many pencils that are supposedly HB feel more like 4H.

watergirl

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 2:57 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

I have seen several pencil injuries, and different pens require different grips and pressure. Children were fine before pencils were invented.

Re: the bold - then those kids simply need better supervision while sitting at a table and writing. I would seriously question the skills and ability of whoever is with them if they are injuring themselves while using a writing utensil properly and never allow them to use scissors or a compass!

Re: the not bold - Ok, if you say so.

gamanit

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 2:58 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

Lead is a super soft metal. It operates differently than wax or whatever crayons are made out of these days. On a side note pencils no longer have any lead.

chanatron1000

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 2:59 pm

watergirl wrote:

None of the injured were young children, nor were they particularly lacking in motor skills.

chanatron1000

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 3:00 pm

gamanit wrote:

Lead is a super soft metal. It operates differently than wax or whatever crayons are made out of these days. On a side note pencils no longer have any lead.

It is also different from graphite.

gamanit

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 3:03 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

It is also different from graphite.

Yes it is. Just disputing the fact that kids having survived prior to the invention of modern pencils has any relevance when comparing to pens, crayons and markers. I would follow the advice of an OT in this case.

urban gypsy

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 3:05 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

None of the injured were young children, nor were they particularly lacking in motor skills.

I co-sign this. I remember frequent pencil injuries in elementary school. People were forever stabbing each other with them, and sometimes stabbing themselves on purpose to create "tatoos" Can't Believe It

watergirl

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 3:07 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

None of the injured were young children, nor were they particularly lacking in motor skills.

Then thats very frightening. What on earth were they doing while sitting and writing?! I would be very worried about these people who are not young children and not lacking in motor skills. They are certainly lacking in other skills and in seichel. One does not injure oneself whilst sitting and writing.

watergirl

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 3:08 pm

urban gypsy wrote:

Thats not sitting and writing. And these people will find other things to hurt themselves/each other with in the absence of a pencil. Goodness. Have you seen the Handmaid’s Tale? I’d be more afraid of a pen!

And this goes back to my point on proper supervision.

Last edited by watergirl on Thu, Sep 05 2019, 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

singleagain

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 3:09 pm

urban gypsy wrote:

A few months ago twitter was ablaze with people's pencil tattoos... Mostly from accidently banging into a pencil point into skin. And years later ppl have marks on their skin from this.

chanatron1000

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 3:11 pm

watergirl wrote:

Most of them were either standing while sharpening a pencil and lost their balance, or they accidentally placed a their hand on a desk that had a pencil on it.

chanatron1000

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 3:12 pm

gamanit wrote:

I find it hard to believe that one specific writing implement that has existed in its current form for a relatively short amount of time is an absolute necessity for child development. And even if that benefit exists, it is only one pro against a long list of cons.

watergirl

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 3:13 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

Most of them were either standing while sharpening a pencil and lost their balance, or they accidentally placed a their hand on a desk that had a pencil on it.

...accidentally placed their hand on a desk that had a pencil on it? I hope hatzallah was there!!

And ok if you say so.