A polite "good morning" won't make you sin, or will it?

amother

Ruby

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:05 pm

nechamashifra wrote:

Why would you feel invisible when you know it's not personal?
We accept that burping after a meal is considered a compliment in some cultures...why can't we accept the different customs amongst our own people? I never understood why people get so offended when you know that the reason he's doing it is because of his beliefs or the way he was raised, and nothing to do with you.

You just grossed me out. I never knew burping is a compliment.
I knew my food was good but...

amother

Scarlet

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:05 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It's nice and all when men are makpid not to interact with women, but when a neighbor passes by, a "good morning" is polite, I don't like to feel invisible. Trust me, I won't think you're starting up with me, I'll just think that you are a mentch.

The saying hi doesn't bother me at all, that's the culture, it won't change. Its the ignorance of my distress when Im clearly struggling to carry something or push or whatever that bothers me.

momomany

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:18 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

As a health care provider , I was taught to be culturally sensitive. This means understanding that norms in different cultures are to be accepted and not judged. It is extremely judgmental to take it negatively if a man does not say hello to you. His particular sect and practice of Judaism may be different from yours and not saying hello to a woman is something he may be taught is correct and appropriate. It seems to me this is something you need to be working on at you end, to be accepting of others beliefs and practices and not construe them as insulting.

Last edited by momomany on Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

kenz

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:18 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

The saying hi doesn't bother me at all, that's the culture, it won't change. Its the ignorance of my distress when Im clearly struggling to carry something or push or whatever that bothers me.

I agree with this. I don’t need my male neighbors to say hello, let alone shmooze, and certainly not a stranger, but if I’m shlepping a stroller/packages/child/anything up steps or in any situation where it seems difficult for me, I think it’s a complete lack of mentschlichkeit to pretend you don’t see me in the name of frumkeit. I don’t care what your community norms are. My husband won’t shmooze with female neighbors but he will certainly offer help when it is needed and I would be horrified if he didn’t. And yes, I live in a yeshivish community and we have both types of people. You can bet I’m doing my best to raise my kids to be decent human beings first.

momomany

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:23 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

Well, I have a playgroup in my house and when fathers dont say good morning,bye and thank you, it bothers me big time!!! Twisted Evil

I consider it as just being polite,I don't shmooze with them and I don't expect them to.

You need to work on accepting others practices and beliefs and not being bothered that they are different from yours. This is not a polite issue. Some workmates find it rude when frum coworkers wont taste their beautiful home baked goods. It is only the narrow minded ones who continue to feel slighted even after kosher explanations are given.

Chayalle

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:26 pm

kenz wrote:

I remember once being in E"Y with DD, who was 1 1/2 at the time. I was waiting at a bus stop. When the bus came, I took her out of her stroller and was starting toward the bus when two frum men, who had not visibly noticed me until then, grabbed hold of her stroller and lifted it onto the bus. A seat was vacated for me and DD, and my money was passed forward to the driver to pay the fare. At no time did the men look at me, but I appreciated their help very much. I definitely did not feel ignored.

There's no place like home.

singleagain

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:27 pm

momomany wrote:

Food is different. Especially now a days when everyone and his uncle had a food sensitivity or special diet

amother

Scarlet

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:29 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

Well, I have a playgroup in my house and when fathers dont say good morning,bye and thank you, it bothers me big time!!! Twisted Evil

I consider it as just being polite,I don't shmooze with them and I don't expect them to.

Im not sure about the good morning and the bye, but a thank you (shkoyach) with averted eyes can work. For goodness sake this person takes care of your kids all day!

I don't speak to men (community norms), but I will be polite even in a twisted way. e.g. tell my child to say hello to his friend's father or something like that.

momomany

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:29 pm

singleagain wrote:

Food is different. Especially now a days when everyone and his uncle had a food sensitivity or special diet

The point is not food. The point is accepting that people have different religious practices and not to belittle them or take offense at them. Take yourself out of the equation. Theu religious.practices have nothing to do with you.

singleagain

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:32 pm

momomany wrote:

Perhaps... But if you want to go back to religion... Is it a good thing to ignore a person who greeted you first?

If they don't say good morning first.. maybe they didn't see me. I can understand. But if I say good morning and they don't respond.. you just embarrassed me and if I remember my Torah... Embarrassing a person is tantamount to murder

amother

Scarlet

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:33 pm

kenz wrote:

Yes I have many stories of being ignored when heavily pregnant and trying to carry something or even not pregnant. I would like to believe that my husband would help others. I know that men don't always notice these things (I can be dan lkaf zchus too), but sometimes its clearly obvious...

I have a gravel path that I sometimes have to cross with a double stroller. Just this week, Ive had men just stand to the side as they watch me struggle to get it through and others who actually helped me pull the carriage from the other side (without even making eye contact) and I said thank you... I appreciated his help no more and no less.

amother

Scarlet

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:36 pm

singleagain wrote:

I think this depends on community norms, because in my community it is not normal for a woman to greet a man first unless they are mother and son, brother or sister, or such a close relationship. I remember the awkwardness of passing my uncles on the street and waiting for them to acknowledge me before I them, because the other way is just not acceptable in our community. I have uncles from other communities whom I would have no problem to greet first...

Chayalle

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:40 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

Which community is this? I definitely greet my relatives (including thru marriage) if I pass them on the street....including those who are principal of large local Cheder, magid shiur in a mesivta, rosh Chaburah in BMG, etc....

amother

Yellow

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:44 pm

Sorry OP, but a male neighbor is not supposed to greet you. If you're insulted, it's your problem.
I would be pretty uncomfortable if a male neighbor would greet me. The only male neighbor I feel comfortable greeting is a 90 year old man.

momomany

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 1:55 pm

singleagain wrote:

Religious questions that you have should be questions regarding your OWN practice , not that of others. Thats judgemental

simcha2

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 2:09 pm

There is a specific halacha to greet each person.

(Including women and non Jews)

מענה רך משיב חמה ומרבה שלום עם אחיו ועם קרוביו ועם כל אדם ואפילו עם גוי בשוק כדי שיהא אהוב למעלה ונחמד למטה ויהא מקובל על הבריות

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 2:10 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I see this all the time in the US, by people of all ethnicities.

I was once at the airport, trying to get home before a major storm closed all airports and we were stuck. The gate area was very crowded, I guess a lot of people had the same idea. My kids were sitting on the floor, and I was standing near them. There were several clearly Chasidish families seated. No problem -- they were there first, and I'm able to stand. But one Chasidish man came over to a couple of teens -- hopefully HIS teens -- and told them that they needed to get up for me, they should never sit while an adult woman is standing. I told him it was not necessary, but he insisted.

There are good, polite people everywhere.

amother

Burlywood

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 2:13 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

Why are you OK with the 90 year old? Is that because a 90 yo man no longer has impure thoughts or because these chumrahs were only started when he was already a grown man, hence he was raised to be mekayem the mitzva of Saber biPanim Yafot?

(FYI, nursing homes have the highest rates of STDs)