S/o good morning thread (women's version)

amother

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:22 pm

Im scarlet on the other thread.

That thread was rather triggering for me, so I guess I'm here to vent.

Im chassidish and a bit of an outlier in the community (cos I generally have a mind of my own and don't follow community norms when I don't have to).

So I guess this is really a vent. And that is forget those men. What about the women? Stare at me as we walk down the block and when I smile and say hello, you just walk by, stare some more and even turn around to see which planet I came off of?
And when both our carriages don't fit on the sidewalk and I kindly move to the side (even though mine is a double and yours is a single), what about a thank you?

Sigh... I used to greet everyone. I still greet but not most people most of the time, cos I can't be bothered for the extra staring and judgement it brings (I try on shabbes at least). Although according to the other thread it should be a mitzvah!!

nchr

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 10:06 pm

Thank you and hi are just very different. You must say good morning to a mailman, garbage collector, bus driver, etc. You must always try to hold open doors and say thank you at every opportunity. You do not need to say hi to random strangers. If they are overly friendly and say hi first, a smile back is more than enough.

amother

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 10:40 pm

nchr wrote:

I am not asking them to say hi first. Im asking them to either acknowledge that I said hi or not stare at the very least. And say thank you when its necessary. I just feel like I may as well be a tree...

amother

Papaya

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 10:45 pm

If someone tells me hi, of course I answer! I love talking to people! It might leave me wondering if we somehow know each other and I should remember who you are. If you see me staring... I'm probably not staring at you, just spaced out. I do that a lot when I am walking and trying to remember the hundred things that still need to be taken care of.

amother

Tan

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 12:01 am

News flash: Everyone is into their own world. Not really thinking negatively about you when they look back at you. Some people just have a bad habit of staring problem! Looking back at people who pass them, especially someone who dresses different than their typical.
Please dont take it personal.
Not everyone is very friendly to greet.

amother

Seafoam

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 12:02 am

Bizarrely, your post made me feel good. I always thought that young chassidish women stare and ignore me because I'm not one of them.

I'm dati leumi, and when I hold a door open for someone at the mall (because she is carrying lots of bags, or pushing a stroller, or using crutches, or whatever) I generally get a smile and a thank you. Including from older chassidish women. Yet the younger ones almost never acknowledge me. It's just that open-mouthed head to toe stare. Then they sail through the door.

Maybe they are just growing up in a culture of not speaking to anyone they don't know? I don't understand it. I'll still hold the door open, though.

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 12:36 am

I’m chassidish too so I get what you’re saying. It’s very unfortunate but in my circles, no one greets random people on the street unless they actually know them. If you greet me and I don’t know you, I’ll assume you’re mistaking me with someone else. It’s sad but it’s the norm. Some people stare, no matter how you dress and some won’t even realize you’re dressed differently. Please don’t take it personally.

amother

Ginger

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 1:29 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My mother taught us girls to greet everyone with a smile, and she always got compliments from older, lonely people or people who were what other people perceived as different.
THIS BEHAVIOR OF NOT GREETING PEOPLE (OR SAYING THANK YOU FOR BEING CONSIDERATE OF SOMEONE'S CARRIAGE) HAS UNFORTUNATELY BECOME NORMALIZED BEHAVIOR. I sound like my grandmother, but I am not sure why they need to learn all these commentaries on each possuk of Chumash...

dankbar

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 1:41 am

I think if you are being overly friendly, the other person might be looking at you, to try to remember from where she knows you from, if at all. Might not be about your dress, maybe you're self conscious. (Although there are people that stare, but in such cases, I think they are just trying to place you, in their sea of acquaintances.)

amother

Orange

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 3:41 am

It’s totally a New York phenomenon. Every time I visit I experience a culture shock at how rude people are.
And everyone who comes to Australia is always astounded at how helpful & friendly people are.
New Yorkers never greet you with”gut shabbos “ & if you’re friendly they give you a weird look & rush past like you have leprosy.
Also please & thank you aren’t part of general vocabulary much.

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 12:04 pm

I suspect it's a regional, "NY area vs other places" kind of thing. In NYC, you don't say hi to strangers. Making eye contact could be asking for trouble. In the midwestern town where I grew up, you wave or say hi to anyone you pass on the street. Of course there are far fewer people on the street. But we also don't have the luxury of ignoring people who aren't exactly like us because we're very much a minority. In places like Brooklyn, lakewood, monsey etc. you're very much a majority within the frum neighborhoods and so you can "afford" to stick just to the people you know. It's not nice or polite but there are no social repercussions for you.

I was visiting mishpacha in an "in-town" community and was walking around in front of the house with my little great-nephew. The next-door neighbor who was with her kid in front of her house turned to me and asked "Who are you?" in a tone that was, if not outright hostile, definitely challenging. I was so taken aback I was momentarily speechless. You can tell just from my clothes that I'm from elsewhere, from a different stream of Orthodoxy, and a generation older than most of the women on the block. But still--"Who are you?" Couldn't she have said "I don't think we've met, I'm Malka Fein from next door, and you are...?" Just because I don't wear a sheitel and a black shell under a black ankle-length dress with no waistline doesn't make me a potential child molester or mass murderer.

That sort of thing would never happen in my community. I wouldn't say everyone greets visitors with love and candies, but they're polite. If they see someone they don't know, they'll say hello, do you live around here or are you visiting someone or something to that effect. Because we can't afford not to.

amother

Goldenrod

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 12:43 pm

I grew up in manhattan. Considering that my mailing address was ny ny while brooklyn is brooklyn ny I think I qualify as from NYC but somehow I think in jewville I don't Wink

. I was raised to look to see if anyone was coming behind me and hold the door for them. We said good shabbos to everyone... I'm always surprised when in my midwest community people don't hold doors but hey maybe they are from ny, oh wait so am I! sorry, pet peeve.

amother

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 1:08 pm

Phewwwwwww. This is so validating everyone thank you!

I thought I was maybe crazy.... What's worse than the staring at me, is if I move out the way for you say thank you, and teach your kids to say sorry if their balls fly into me or their bike wheels get stuck in my carriage wheels. But vent over! It was validating to hear that many of you have similar experiences and although I may never feel good about it, I guess I will get used to it. Just Please G-d I hope my kids will be well-mannered. Im doing my best!