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Candy and soda at school
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amother




Mint


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 6:07 pm
keym wrote:
Actually my Rav actually holds that SWEETS is the sweets and treats of the generation. In those days it was sweetened nuts and in these days it's soda and sour sticks.
This was an actual psak halacha from my Rav. That children should know that Yom Tov we get candy and soda and know that there is a place in Yiddishkeit for all our tayvos in olam hazeh even sugar and corn syrup.


Hashem yerachem
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 7:22 pm
keym wrote:
Who said anything about eating it until they get sick.
Everything in moderation.


But that's what this thread is about; children being fed enough of it to negatively impact their health.
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keym




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 7:26 pm
southernbubby wrote:
But that's what this thread is about; children being fed enough of it to negatively impact their health.


I was responding to a poster who insinuated that I should never give nosh- not even on special days.
And calling it pure poison is rhetoric which means never. I don't ever feed my kids bleach because it's pure poison. Soda is not "pure poison" so they can have it in moderation.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 7:47 am
keym wrote:
I was responding to a poster who insinuated that I should never give nosh- not even on special days.
And calling it pure poison is rhetoric which means never. I don't ever feed my kids bleach because it's pure poison. Soda is not "pure poison" so they can have it in moderation.


My grandchildren who live here are allowed one lolly on Shabbos afternoon or maybe a freeze pop but if they over do the combination of sugar and artificial whatevers, they go nuts and DIL has a hard time dealing with them. I do give them each a tiny Tic tac for getting in the car seats nicely. I think that the problems from junk food have to do with quantity and frequency and this is OPs complaint; too much too often.
And once something is part of the daily routine, it's no longer a special treat.
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 7:50 am
The thread was about candy though, not nosh. Of course we can't never let our kids have cakes, cookies and chips, b/c when they grow up they will eat as much as they can of it to make up for being deprived of it as a child. But this thread was specifically about candy and junk. Yes bleach will affect a person immediately if they ingest it, but the chemicals in these candies and many snacks are going to just as severely affect kids, over a much longer period of time, when they are being given it all the time. Why would I want to do that to my kids? Especially when we live in a time when there are SO many options for treats or nosh, that don't have chemicals, and aren't overloaded with sugar!
Some parents believe it's ok if their kids ingest dirt when playing outside, and even think it's a bit healthy for their system. That's fine, every parent can make decisions for their own children. But what if I don't want my kids ingesting dirt, will you get upset if I ask you not to give it to them? It's the same concept.
We live in a generation when the dangers are known about candy and chemicals, and the after affects such as cavities and hyper energy. So schools and parents should really respect if a parent doesn't want their kids exposed to that danger. OP and us parents are not trying to tell other people how to raise their kids, we have enough on our hands raising our own kids! But then people shouldn't either tell us that something is ok for our kids, when it's clearly not.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:17 am
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
The thread was about candy though, not nosh. Of course we can't never let our kids have cakes, cookies and chips, b/c when they grow up they will eat as much as they can of it to make up for being deprived of it as a child. But this thread was specifically about candy and junk. Yes bleach will affect a person immediately if they ingest it, but the chemicals in these candies and many snacks are going to just as severely affect kids, over a much longer period of time, when they are being given it all the time. Why would I want to do that to my kids? Especially when we live in a time when there are SO many options for treats or nosh, that don't have chemicals, and aren't overloaded with sugar!
Some parents believe it's ok if their kids ingest dirt when playing outside, and even think it's a bit healthy for their system. That's fine, every parent can make decisions for their own children. But what if I don't want my kids ingesting dirt, will you get upset if I ask you not to give it to them? It's the same concept.
We live in a generation when the dangers are known about candy and chemicals, and the after affects such as cavities and hyper energy. So schools and parents should really respect if a parent doesn't want their kids exposed to that danger. OP and us parents are not trying to tell other people how to raise their kids, we have enough on our hands raising our own kids! But then people shouldn't either tell us that something is ok for our kids, when it's clearly not.


Its not that I want my kids eating tons of candy. I don't. In fact, I hate the idea of rewarding kids with food in almost all cases. The issue shouldn't be candy vs broccoli. It should be are food rewards appropriate.

But that's not the point. The point is that your claims that sugar affects children's behavior is false. And your repeating it, over and over, doesn't make it any more true. (I've also never heard of kids getting that many cavities these days. Have you considered sealants?)

Moreover, no one is forcing candy down your kids' throats. In all our years of elementary education, we only encountered one teacher who regularly used candy as a reward. Two of mine had her. Neither wanted the candy. They took it, because they liked the idea of getting the reward, but either passed it on to other kids or threw it out later in the day. Your kids don't HAVE to eat the candy. Your problem seems to be that your kids want to eat it, so you want to withhold it from everyone in order for you to be able to control your own kids.
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imasoftov




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:22 am
keym wrote:
Actually it's brought down.
Men have Simchas Yom tov with meat and wine.
Women with jewelery.
And children with toys and SWEETS.

I'm curious where it says toys.

Rambam, Hilchot Shvitat Yom Tov 6:18 says הַקְּטַנִּים נוֹתֵן לָהֶם קְלָיוֹת וֶאֱגוֹזִים וּמִגְדָּנוֹת, parched grain, nuts, and sweets. The Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim 592:2 also omits the sweets, leaving only the grain and nuts: הקטנים נותן להם קליות ואגוזים
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:23 am
groovy1224 wrote:
I'm not saying kids shouldn't be allowed to bring in candy, I'm not sure where you get that.
I'm saying that just like we come up with alternative lunches and snacks so as not to endanger the lives of allergic children, teachers can come up with alternative prizes so as not to damage the health and diet of the class.


Or, of course, you can.

One of my kids had SLT at school. The therapist used erasers and stickers as rewards. I gifted her with a massive array of them to use with her students.

So if you want the teacher to distribute organic graham crackers as treats, gift her a case.
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:27 am
Our kids obviously do not go to the same school Smile And I know many many kids in our area who have a lot of cavities. You not hearing about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. B"H my kids don't eat the candy that much. They realize how painful it was to sit in the dentist chair, and I sat and explained to them why other treats are better for them. We have a system that they get a different prize if they really wanted the candy. A lot of times they throw the candy out. So this is not about my kids personally. It would be nice for others to respect the dangers (yes dangers) of candy. My kids are a bit older, so we have worked well on this issue, but I have not worked with any young kids (I work with kids), that would just automatically refuse candy when it's handed to them. B"H for you that your kids were like that when they were young. If other kids are like that, that's great. In my ten years of working with kids I have not personally seen that. The reasons teachers and Rebbeim are giving them out, is because the majority of kids do want them and take them (the teachers told me that back when I complained about it).
This is not about control. This is about respecting something that has been shown to be bad for kids and all people.
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amother




Indigo


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:35 am
amother [ Mint ] wrote:
I don’t mean to pick on you - I respect that you’re trying to limit the junk. I just need to point out this sentence because it’s shch a perfect characterization of what is going on.

Look at the words. The junkiest foods are limited to the most special occasions. Does this make any sense?? You’re admitting it’s junk. The poorest quality food is reserved for special occasions?? Surely that not what was meant by a shabbas treat.


I totally hear that, at the same time I can only work with what I have -meaning my kids are exposed to certain norms and expectations in school / community / from friends etc. My kids do not look at yummy healthy foods as a treat. Me & my husband do our best to model healthy eating/ eat healthy treats ourselves, but bottom line is my kids do appreciate shabbos & YT more bec of the junky treats. And due to the constant junk from camp our school, they’re conditioned to look at those as the real treats. (And to be totally honest, while I feel great after a healthy snack, even for me a real treat is junk -no not the candy, but a yummy choc chip cookie or decadent piece of cake loaded with white flour & sugar & choc is my ultimate treat, just being honest.)

Also to clarify -I consider cake, bissili, msg loaded snacks, chocolate, candies all in the junk category. With some being better then others. I’m no nutritionist & do the best with the knowledge I have. On shabbos we usually stick with chocolate or cookies & chips. On birthdays a creamy cake & maybe one type of candy. YT cake and maybe occasionally a little candy. Purim I won’t even get into... We do also give healthy treats on shabb & YT -like strawberries & berries and the kids love those too, so yes we also give some good for the body foods on these special occasions.

What would you suggest? A policy of no unhealthy treats allowed on shabbos /YT, and instead give it randomly on occasion on a Tuesday or Thursday?!
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boots




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:37 am
OP I have not been able to stop the junk-fest at school but we do try to detox at home with water and exercise after school.

FWIW I do not think the crankiness is coming from junk food, it is more likely coming from the adjustment of starting school and the additional demands on a 5 yr old like sitting and listening and following a structure all day long.

I would also guess that if the teachers are using so much junk to reward the class that it is indicative of a weakness in overall classroom management skills which will cause additional stress for your kid. You may want to get some other parents together to see if the school will invest on teacher training so that they don't have to rely on the "cheap" methods of junky rewards.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:38 am
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
Our kids obviously do not go to the same school Smile And I know many many kids in our area who have a lot of cavities. You not hearing about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. B"H my kids don't eat the candy that much. They realize how painful it was to sit in the dentist chair, and I sat and explained to them why other treats are better for them. We have a system that they get a different prize if they really wanted the candy. A lot of times they throw the candy out. So this is not about my kids personally. It would be nice for others to respect the dangers (yes dangers) of candy. My kids are a bit older, so we have worked well on this issue, but I have not worked with any young kids (I work with kids), that would just automatically refuse candy when it's handed to them. B"H for you that your kids were like that when they were young. If other kids are like that, that's great. In my ten years of working with kids I have not personally seen that. The reasons teachers and Rebbeim are giving them out, is because the majority of kids do want them and take them (the teachers told me that back when I complained about it).
This is not about control. This is about respecting something that has been shown to be bad for kids and all people.


In 2015-2016, about 43 percent of children ages 2 to 19 had any cavities. Meaning that more than half of all kids don't get any cavities. Moreover, 80% of cavities occur in 25% of kids.

Cavities are usually caused by bacteria that is passed by saliva (although poor dental hygiene doesn't help). The best way of keeping your kid from getting cavities is by NEVER SHARING A SPOON, DRINK, ETC.
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amother




Indigo


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:42 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Its not that I want my kids eating tons of candy. I don't. In fact, I hate the idea of rewarding kids with food in almost all cases. The issue shouldn't be candy vs broccoli. It should be are food rewards appropriate.

But that's not the point. The point is that your claims that sugar affects children's behavior is false. And your repeating it, over and over, doesn't make it any more true. (I've also never heard of kids getting that many cavities these days. Have you considered sealants?)

Moreover, no one is forcing candy down your kids' throats. In all our years of elementary education, we only encountered one teacher who regularly used candy as a reward. Two of mine had her. Neither wanted the candy. They took it, because they liked the idea of getting the reward, but either passed it on to other kids or threw it out later in the day. Your kids don't HAVE to eat the candy. Your problem seems to be that your kids want to eat it, so you want to withhold it from everyone in order for you to be able to control your own kids.


Consider yourself lucky. In our school majority of teachers & even principal reward with candy & soda. Multiple passionate complaints from parents did zero. Buying alternative prizes for teachers didn’t help either, they claim the treats work better.

My kids love the candy, even the one who suffered through tons of cavities. My dentist opposes sealants on baby teeth.

Honestly the whole doing everything for a reward education really doesn’t appeal to me. Yes it help & has its time & place, but would so much prefer building intrinsic motivation and pride, compliments, feelings of accomplishment etc. But until we get there... prizes are way way better then food rewards. Not sure why it’s so hard to get the schools to change?!?!
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:51 am
SixOfWands wrote:
In 2015-2016, about 43 percent of children ages 2 to 19 had any cavities. Meaning that more than half of all kids don't get any cavities. Moreover, 80% of cavities occur in 25% of kids.

Cavities are usually caused by bacteria that is passed by saliva (although poor dental hygiene doesn't help). The best way of keeping your kid from getting cavities is by NEVER SHARING A SPOON, DRINK, ETC.


All carbohydrates feed the bacteria that converts to acid and rots teeth; so raisins and chips are also part of the chain reaction. Some dentists blame the gummy worms rather than the chocolate bars.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:53 am
southernbubby wrote:
All carbohydrates feed the bacteria that converts to acid and rots teeth; so raisins and chips are also part of the chain reaction. Some dentists blame the gummy worms rather than the chocolate bars.


My dentist friend used to freak out when she saw kids eating raisins. She had no problem with chocolate.
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thegiver




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:59 am
The sour candies are the worst bec of the acid in them that rly damages teeth.
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thegiver




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 9:00 am
What do you consider healthy candy?? Organic lollies—whats the best place to buy this in bulk?
What else?
Where can I buy jewish stickers in bulk?
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 9:06 am
thegiver wrote:
What do you consider healthy candy?? Organic lollies—whats the best place to buy this in bulk?
What else?
Where can I buy jewish stickers in bulk?


You can try https://www.tjssc.com/jewish-stickers/ for "Jewish" stickers. But I'm not sure why there would be a problem with generic ones, eg https://www.orientaltrading.co......fltr
https://www.amazon.com/BeYumi-....._dp_2
https://www.amazon.com/sticker....._dp_1
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 11 2019, 9:11 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Its not that I want my kids eating tons of candy. I don't. In fact, I hate the idea of rewarding kids with food in almost all cases. The issue shouldn't be candy vs broccoli. It should be are food rewards appropriate.

But that's not the point. The point is that your claims that sugar affects children's behavior is false. And your repeating it, over and over, doesn't make it any more true. (I've also never heard of kids getting that many cavities these days. Have you considered sealants?)

Moreover, no one is forcing candy down your kids' throats. In all our years of elementary education, we only encountered one teacher who regularly used candy as a reward. Two of mine had her. Neither wanted the candy. They took it, because they liked the idea of getting the reward, but either passed it on to other kids or threw it out later in the day. Your kids don't HAVE to eat the candy. Your problem seems to be that your kids want to eat it, so you want to withhold it from everyone in order for you to be able to control your own kids.


If I ate the equivalent of the amount of sugar that kids eat at a birthday party or on Purim, it would affect my behavior because I would feel sick. Now I am not saying that kids can't celebrate birthdays and Purim but it is all of that plus candy for every conceivable occasion that adds up to lots of ingested chemicals and sometimes too much weight gain.

Small children will probably not refuse candy if it is offered and my grandchildren with orthodontia are likewise guaranteed to eat it despite the admonitions and being old enough to know better!

Obviously the best way to deal with the excess candy issue is to get other parents on board but I have not seen parents complain about a policy limiting candy. Most parents realize that there are no health benefits from eating candy and often junk crowds out nutritious eating.
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thegiver




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 12 2019, 7:00 pm
Today my girl refused bell peppers that she used to love because “ew I don’t want that. I want candy!” Gahhhhh
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