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I've got a weird phone call...
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chicco




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 8:28 am
It sounds to me that she has reservations about giving you money for some reason. That could be for any number of reasons: ie- because she is stingy, she thinks it will be damaging to your relationship, her husband won't let, etc etc.

Imagine you were her and unable to give money for some reason and you get a call that someone you care about needs money. You panic. You know that it is not a possibility and you don't want to open Pandora's box. You offer what you do have- a listening ear. You try and be sympathetic. Then you hang up and you are riddled with guilt. But still, you are unable to give money. You feel you need to do something more to show you care. Boom, your donation offer is what you come up with.

If this is someone you have a good relationship with and think is normal, chances are something like I described is what is going on. I would drop it and pursue other options. You don't know that she is really capable of helping you. Assume she wants to, but can't.

Hatzlacha with your situation.
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amother




Magenta


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 8:43 am
work with her -- have her make a donation to your children's school directly toward your children's tuition

and tell her how much you appreciate it

win-win

hope your situation improves fast
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joyful mom




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 8:53 am
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
work with her -- have her make a donation to your children's school directly toward your children's tuition

and tell her how much you appreciate it

win-win

hope your situation improves fast


Great idea!
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mommy9




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 8:56 am
According to my husband's rav you don't have to give tzedakah if you're struggling financially. Ask your own shaylah but don't let her makeyou feel guilty on top of everything else.
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cbg




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 8:58 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Not angry that she didn't help us out with money.
Angry at her stupid responses: offering listening ear and giving tzedukah on our behalf to someone.


That’s all it is
Stupid response
Maybe she really is that “stupid”
Maybe it was a 1x stupidity
Now you know
Take what she says with a grain of salt,
But she is sweet for wanting to be there for you.
She really doesn’t realize what she says is hurtful
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amother




Magenta


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 8:59 am
it does sound painful and disappointing and not the answer for which you were hoping

however, yes I would try to make lemonade out of whats offered

and be DLKZ that she had good reasons for what she said and is well intentioned
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amother




Oak


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 9:04 am
Squishy wrote:
The schools will work with someone who raises money for them. It's all the same pot to the school. They don't care that they get the money through tuition or a donation.

If WR (wealthy relative) pays tuition, WR can't take the deduction. WR can take the deduction with a donation.

I don't see how having WR known to the schools could make things worse.


Off topic but important- if you give money to a school to pay for a particular individual's tuition, that donation isn't tax deductible.

OP, I'm sorry that you are having a hard time, and I'm sorry your relative is so clueless. I hope things turn around soon.
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lcraighten




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 9:49 am
I agree with the other posters: Ask her to make the donation to your kids school in your name. Tell her this will both help her and you.

Just because you called her to vent, it doesn't seem like you outright asked her for financial help. As embarrassing as it is, you might have to be more direct with her.
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OOTforlife




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 10:00 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Not angry that she didn't help us out with money.
Angry at her stupid responses: offering listening ear and giving tzedukah on our behalf to someone.

I can see why you might be offended that she would assume you're not giving tzedakah. But if you're actually giving it (as you say you are) why wouldn't it help you to have her defray your tzedakah obligations? Then you could use the money you were planning to donate for yourself.

I don't see why her "listening ear" response was stupid at all. If you think it was, then what would have been a less stupid response (besides giving you money, which you say you aren't mad about her not doing)?
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Zehava




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 10:19 am
She may be clueless but you seem entitled. Unless she’s your mom, she doesn’t owe you a thing.
I bet she senses your attitude.
Personally I wouldn’t give to someone who thinks my listening ear is “stupid”. Everyone wants to be appreciated for who they are, not just what’s in their bank account.
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Flip Flops




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 10:20 am
OOTforlife wrote:
I can see why you might be offended that she would assume you're not giving tzedakah. But if you're actually giving it (as you say you are) why wouldn't it help you to have her defray your tzedakah obligations? Then you could use the money you were planning to donate for yourself.

I don't see why her "listening ear" response was stupid at all. If you think it was, then what would have been a less stupid response (besides giving you money, which you say you aren't mad about her not doing)?

I wonder how this works hallachicly. Can she give tzedaka for you?? Would you be exempt from giving maaser because she gave tzedaka? I never heard of such a thing. I'd be very curious, though to hear what a rav would say.
IMO, her response in the first conversation could have been ok - maybe she didn't have or want to give for whatever reason. But to call back and offer to give a donation for you? Hello! Weird, weird. Definitely lacking some interpreting and/or social and/or tact skills.
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OOTforlife




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 10:25 am
Flip Flops wrote:
I wonder how this works hallachicly. Can she give tzedaka for you?? Would you be exempt from giving maaser because she gave tzedaka? I never heard of such a thing. I'd be very curious, though to hear what a rav would say.
IMO, her response in the first conversation could have been ok - maybe she didn't have or want to give for whatever reason. But to call back and offer to give a donation for you? Hello! Weird, weird. Definitely lacking some interpreting and/or social and/or tact skills.

If a rav said that the money has to pass through OP's hands first, then they could do it that way. But it would still help OP. Is there any rule that you can't use gifted money to give tzedakah or that you can't give tzedakah if you've received tzedakah?
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BatyaEsther




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 10:39 am
Is it possible that she feels that if she gives tzedaka in your zechus, that Hashem will give you a schar of Parnass? That rather than giving you a temporary handouts that she will do histadlut to change your financial Mazel that you should be able to both have the money you need and the nachas of having earned it.
My father has always said that you don't get poor from giving tzedaka.
I have heard so many people who attribute the bracha of their wealth from being baali tzedaka. Maybe that is her thought process. (She probably did not understand the urgency and desperation of your poverty and need for assistance from her in the present).

Wishing you hatzlacha.
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greenfire




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 11:31 am
sounds empathetic & condescending at the same time ... if she cannot give you the tzedaka directly, she really shouldn't talk to you about it - your own tzedaka is cheshboned with Hashem not her

it's bound to make you feel horrid & needy [as if you didn't before]

just remember that sustenance comes from Hashem through whichever channels ~ god speed
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amother




Yellow


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 11:35 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Background: Our family is really struggling financially on a high level.
Being that we have a close family relative who is very well off and gives nice amounts to Tzedaka, especially to family members, I opened up to her and told her how much we're struggling.
Her response: Its important to talk things out, Whenever you need "a listening ear", you're welcome to call me!
A couple of days later she calls me back, with an amazing offer: Being that it's Chodesh Elul and a person should give tzedaka, I was thinking that "being that you're poor, you are probably not giving tzedaka so I'm willing to make a donation to an organization or someone- in your name"!!! You tell me where you'd like me to donate, and I'll give on your behalf..
(My response: No one is exempt from giving charity and we're giving our share too).
These statements hurt me very much. Am I too sensitive or was she insensitive?


I'm sorry for your financial woes, and hope that the issues resolve themselves quickly.

I'm also sorry that you didn't understand that her giving tzedaka in your name would free up funds that you would be giving to tzedaka, while possibly giving her a tax deduction.

All of that said, you point out that this family is already giving "nice amounts" to other family members. Chances are that they simply reached their limit. Even wealthy people cannot give to everyone; even wealthy people have their limits. It strikes me that they already reached it, brainstormed, and came up with a way they could give just a little more.
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dankbar




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 11:59 am
She wasn't getting it whether accidentally or deliberately.

Now, another question? Do you ever call her to check up on her welfare, share a friendship, help her out with other stuff she needs ( not financially) or do you only call her for money?
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sarahmalka




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 1:43 pm
I agree with Zehava and dankbar. Speaking from the perspective of having a wealthy relative that gets asked to give to the financially struggling relatives, it gets OLD! And creates terrible relationships in the family. My wealthy relative is so sick of being solicited that she is on the verge of cutting off all connection with her sibling who keeps asking, and I witness personally the damage the requests have done on that and other relationships. I also have a wealthy friend who has lost 2-3 very close friendships due to the complications of having given $ to struggling friends. OP sounds entitled or clueless herself. Why should the relative give to you with your mean and ungrateful attitude? You should be happy that she wants to preserve an uncomplicated relationship with you because money damages relationships.
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Zehava




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 2:00 pm
sarahmalka wrote:
I agree with Zehava and dankbar. Speaking from the perspective of having a wealthy relative that gets asked to give to the financially struggling relatives, it gets OLD! And creates terrible relationships in the family. My wealthy relative is so sick of being solicited that she is on the verge of cutting off all connection with her sibling who keeps asking, and I witness personally the damage the requests have done on that and other relationships. I also have a wealthy friend who has lost 2-3 very close friendships due to the complications of having given $ to struggling friends. OP sounds entitled or clueless herself. Why should the relative give to you with your mean and ungrateful attitude? You should be happy that she wants to preserve an uncomplicated relationship with you because money damages relationships.

And if ops attitude is that she’d rather have the money than the friendship... then ask yourself why the heck she’s entitled to that money.
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boots




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 2:03 pm
sarahmalka wrote:
OP sounds entitled or clueless herself. Why should the relative give to you with your mean and ungrateful attitude? You should be happy that she wants to preserve an uncomplicated relationship with you because money damages relationships.


Not to be the imamother police but I'm pretty sure you could make this point in a gentler and more productive way.
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Kiwi13




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 10 2019, 2:06 pm
Maybe her hint is that she will give your masser for you, which will enable you to keep what would have been your maaser to give? Maybe she intended for it to help you feel more comfortable than you would have if she'd offered you money directly?
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