How do you manage when you're living squashed?

Elfrida

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 5:06 pm

Since you obviously have acssess to the internet, would you consider an online course? If you buy any Jewish magazine they all have adverts for on line courses in things like graphic design or computer programming, and the other participants would also be jewish.

It might not lead to your ideal job (what would be your ideal job, by the way?), but it would give you some entry into earning a living, and you can always move on from there later.

I think most of these courses are around a year, so that wouldn't be going before you could start earning

amother

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 5:39 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

So if going to a non Jewish college is far beyond your comfort zone then what did you have in mind?

I would of liked to be brought up with my eyes open instead of being infantalised and wrapped in bubble wrap stuffed with cotton wool..

I'm angry at the system. Creating an environment where one gets lectured about the bad world out there (aka uni, college) and not being given the skills to make a living. But oy vavoy if you marry someone who has studied or gotten a job before marriage Chas vesholom. No, put the kids in Talmud torah until they have a wife and a baby or two and then tell them we can't support you anymore, you're on your own. You're old enough, we need to do the same for your younger siblings.

I am the oldest so I didn't know what was coming.

amother

Ivory

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 5:44 pm

OP is correct in her thinking. The Jewish way is father should teach his son a trade before marriage. At minimum, mother should have told you to take birth control the first few years of marriage (mom was old enough to know reality). It says in the Gemara, plant a vineyard build a home and then find a wife.

What's done is done. Teach your children better. And now get motivation and inspiration from others who were in a similar situation.
Start with JK Rowling, a single mom no money.
Look at her now.
Work hard do your best, you can do it.

amother

Vermilion

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 6:43 pm

I feel your pain. Its true, the system is wholly impractical, but onto your current life. You have two problems. One is temporary about how to live in cramped quarters to minimize discomfort. Thats possible, Marie Kondo. If you're willing it will give you sanity for the quick fix.
You CAN get yourself out of this situation. It is NOT too late. You can go to uni even now if thats what you choose. Its not as easy as the path had you done it younger, but it is far far from too late! Loads of mothers work full time. If you had gone to uni youd be out of the house anyway. Address each specific obstacle in your way and you can get there.

amother

Emerald

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 6:52 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Raising a family is hard enough, doing it without space is even harder..
I'm angry at my parents for not allowing me to go to uni and then marrying me off at a young age to a boy who also had no degree either. Then we get pregnant and have 2 kids and only now do I realise how we were set up for failure and a miserable time. Because now I have toddlers and can't even go study and even if I would do so it would take ages to qualify and start getting payed a decent wage.

Why is the orthodox way so twisted when it causes so much innocent people pain?

Propel Network is a great organization that helps frum women towards a career.
Tel 646 494 0822
https://thepropelnetwork.org/

(It is easy for me to say, but atleast try to let go of anger against your parents.
It is not healthy for you, your husband and your children. This is something that will be self-evident only twenty years down the line, when your kids will be grown-up).

Cheiny

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 7:03 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Don’t blame “the orthodox way” or your parents. Plenty of orthodox people do go to college and have careers. Once you’re an adult you’re responsible for your own actions and decisions.

amother

Jetblack

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 8:50 pm

I only read the first page of responses but OP I understand your frustration. I also understand the other ‘side.’ Many of our communities don’t give options to our kids (or don’t know of or think of other options) so the parents think they are doing the best for their kids and the kids are kids so they don’t know any better. I don’t think it’s fair to point fingers at the OP or anyone else and say you were old enough to get married so you were old enough to make these choices about education etc. She didn’t know any other way! So yes there is a societal problem there. The flip side is yes, now you are an adult so now you need to forge your own path, but it will be difficult! Worth it in the long run, but difficult.

I got married young, but purposely didn’t have kids for 5plus years while I finished my BA and MA. And to be honest, in the company I run now I won’t hire anyone with an online degree because I’ve found them to be vastly under qualified and under educated. I know that’s not the case for all professions though. I also know that postponing having children for so long (or at all) isn’t something many people consider. However I encourage you to think outside the box now, consider all of your options, and make choices that will be best for you and your family from your current perspective and not what you feel like you have to do to make your parents/in-laws/community happy (you better believe I got many comments during my schooling years). All you can do is better your life and model what you think is a healthier life for your kids so you set them up for success according to your new standards.

amother

Bronze

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 9:03 pm

We got married young and reality kicked in pretty quick. Our parents supported us for a few years but the whole time my thought was how can we stabilize ourselves and become financially independent. We both got low paying jobs and went to school at night or online. Bh we have decent paying jobs now and four beautiful children. It was/is hard but there's nothing I would give up or would have wanted to push off. Not the marriage, children, house, or jobs.

amother

Lemon

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 4:19 am

OP, this should go in the Chassidish forum, because otherwise you are causing a chilul hashem and for people to look down on other groups of Klal Israel.

Its not your parents fault - its the system. But look at the Litvish or MO system it also has its flaws:
Litvish - the Shidduch crisis, the pressure for financial support, wife having a full time job and not managing, living in Lakewood and not being able to use your degree, etc....
MO - waiting on marriage and/or kids until after set up financially, secular collage, etc....

The Chassidish system has reasons behind it even in 2019. Now that you are stuck in your situation you can either grumble forever (some kvetching is fine! but in a differant forum...) or find a solution.
There are ways to earn money/degree/certificate in an enviroment that is appropriate for you and DH. Wishing you alot of Hatzlacha!

signed,
BTDT

amother

Tangerine

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 7:51 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

I feel the same way and I am not chassidishe.

(And, yes, my daughters at least I have encouraged to pursue further education. If my sons showed interest in that I would encourage that too.)

OP, if you are UK based look into the Open University. It is very reputable and supposed to be an excellent program. (you can do it even if not in the UK). I know lots of frum people do it. Its not similar to some sketchy american online degrees. Its real work and takes time.

I think Israel also has an Open university, same name, possibly similar but I know less about it.

If you are in Israel there are a lot more options for frum women to get a degree.

amother

Slateblue

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 8:33 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

did your parents also "force" you to have toddlers closely spaced. take a breather, go on b/c and take control of YOUR life. you cannot blame other people for the choices you are making.

amother

Blonde

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 8:40 am

dankbar wrote:

I understand that maybe you can blame your parents for setting you up for marriage at young age, but what about your family planning is that their fault too?

To a certain degree, yes. There's the unwritten expectation that you start your family immediately after marriage, and you don't hold that off for anything at all. To the extent that if you don't have a baby within the first two years, there's the worry that you have fertility issues.

It takes time for a young girl to gain the presence of mind to understand that she has options and choices. But very often at that time, you can't turn back the clock.