How do you manage when you're living squashed?

amother

Beige

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 8:53 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Raising a family is hard enough, doing it without space is even harder..
I'm angry at my parents for not allowing me to go to uni and then marrying me off at a young age to a boy who also had no degree either. Then we get pregnant and have 2 kids and only now do I realise how we were set up for failure and a miserable time. Because now I have toddlers and can't even go study and even if I would do so it would take ages to qualify and start getting payed a decent wage.

Why is the orthodox way so twisted when it causes so much innocent people pain?

I know plenty people with a professional degree and they can't make ends meet. And even more people without a degree or without a hs diploma that are multi millionaires. There r no guarantees. Like revolves around a person's Mazel.
I get that your life is hard right now as you expressed the housing sitch. Maybe consider moving to areas that have cheaper housing.

amother

Ruby

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 8:59 am

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

I know plenty people with a professional degree and they can't make ends meet. And even more people without a degree or without a hs diploma that are multi millionaires.
I get that your life is hard. Maybe consider moving to areas that have cheaper housing.

Here we go again. The oft repeated mantra on ima that there are lots of people with degrees who are poor, and lots of people who didn't finish grade 10 who are millionaires.

We are looking at statistics here, not the exceptions.

As the chart shows, the more you learn, the more you earn. Median weekly earnings in 2017 for those with the highest levels of educational attainment—doctoral and professional degrees—were more than triple those with the lowest level, less than a high school diploma. And workers with at least a bachelor’s degree earned more than the $907 median weekly earnings for all workers.

That said, I would give different advice to an 18 yr old single regarding education, than I would to a married 25 year old with kids. I think in op's situation, it might be better to brainstorm business ideas, or courses she can take, rather than time consuming degrees.

amother

Blonde

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 9:03 am

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

And there are some people who survive diseases without doctors interventions, and people who have died with doctors interventions. Does that make not getting medical help for illnesses the right way to do things?

Sorry, I'm not trying to be harsh. But I'm very very tired of people pointing out that so and so became a millionaire without an education, or so & so got a degree and he doesn't have a job, so therefore we don't need to provide an education for our children. Hashem create the world with a teva, a natural order of things. And if obscure the teva and twist things around, it is unnecessarily creating undo hardships for many people. Yes, there will always be people for whom it works out beautifully, & true there are no guarantees in life, but that doesn't mean we need to ignore the others and subject them to the undue hardships.

amother

Beige

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 9:20 am

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

I was just trying to say its Mazal. I personally have a degree and so does my husband. I am not anti degree. I just know that with a degree you can earn up to a certain amt. As opposed to owning a business the possibilities is unlimited.
Basically I was trying to say, If she had a degree she would be in the same position if that's what Hashem wants.
At this point OP should try to open a business.
I am 35 worked with my degree till 28 when I realized the need for more income.
I opened 2 businesses since and earn 400k+ a yr.
I also recommend reading Rich dad poor dad where he explains why a degree and professional jobs are limiting.

urban gypsy

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 10:02 am

dankbar wrote:

I understand that maybe you can blame your parents for setting you up for marriage at young age, but what about your family planning is that their fault too?

I imagine she would blame her parents if they didn't marry her off early and she didn't find a shidduch.
OP, I completely relate. I have a lot of anger at my mother for "letting" me marry an abusive husband, have 3 kids in quick succession, and encouraged me to have more kids.
I know the feeling of feeling trapped and looking for someone to blame.
When you fully step into your power of owning your part in this, you will feel better not worse, because then you will realize that just like you got yourself into this mess, you can get yourself out again and not wait for someone to "save" you.
As long as you have a good husband who is of similar mind to you on this matter, you are doing really well. You are still very young and there is plenty of time to right the course of your ship.
But you will have to be very brave and care nothing for what other people think.

Mommyg8

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 10:07 am

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

Causation or correlation? It's hard to extrapolate to the frum community because the people in general society who will not finish high school or get a degree are... well... not the cream of the crop, so to speak. While in many frum communities even very bright and hard working people may not have a high school diploma, let alone a degree.

Business owners can, and often do, make way more than professionals. But starting a business is a risk, as there is what? A 50% failure rate?

amother

Fuchsia

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 10:49 am

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

Rabbi Akiva didn't learn at all until he was 40, and he became the gadol hador. Lots of boys start yeshiva at three and never become lamdanim. There are no guarantees. Still, we teach children Torah.

There will always be exceptional people, but by definition, they are the exception.

dankbar

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 11:15 am

Your family's & community's values were/are building a family not a career. You are thinking of switching your value system now.

How do you know if you would've had it easier, if you broke out of your society's cycle?
Your friends would get married & you would stay behind as a single, is that easy?
Your mom wouldn't pay for your schooling, so you would have to scramble to somehow have the funding for it & be riddled now how to pay back your student loans! You woud've had to work in addition, to cover the funds for your schooling, while studying.
You probably didn't get a hi school diploma, even you sat through 12 years of school, so you would have to start from scratch, all over again, to study subjects having nothing to do with what you wanted to major in, like science, history, math ,even if you wanted to be a physologist, or speech therapist. ( just in order to obtain an equivalent to a hi school diploma)
Who says you would pass? who says you would find a job easily after graduating? Who says mom would still let you stay living in her house on her expense by age 25, even if you were still single & studying?
Maybe you would have additional expenses to support yourself, like rent, food, utilities while still studying?
If you had minimal education while going to school, going to college would've been murder for you, to keep up with the studies?
If you have gone to college, and fell in love with someone, you would've married young anyway? who said parents would pay for your wedding & setting up house then?

You can't live your life on if's & but's

dankbar

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 11:31 am

You also can't live your life regretting the past, you can only live your life going forward.

For years I had infertility, if only I would have done different things in my life then, knowing at end that I would have many extra years to spare but still end up with a family etc.

You are still young & can still reroute your map, at least, first you have a family to show for.

dankbar

Thu, Sep 12 2019, 11:41 am

Another point to ponder, the chassidishe older, accomplished female singles have a very hard time doing shidduchim. At that point if they have money or a degree with a good job to support, then they are only interested in full time/full life learners that are extinct at that age. To just take anyone at that point, doesn't feel it was worth the wait for so long. They end up with different issues. Most have to settle for less.
In modern world where people delay marriages because of schooling, many run into other issues like ending up marrying really late & then running into infertility issues at advanced age, and parenting young kids while getting older.
Not all find a shidduch the minute, they finish with their years of extended schooling & starting their profession.

Now you feel stuck because you need the money, someone else with your situation might have a very good paying job etc....
It's all upto Hashem!