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7yo DD being excluded
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amother




OP


Post  Thu, Sep 12 2019, 3:36 pm
My 7yo DD has just started second grade in the same school she was in last year. There are 5 girls (including her) and 10 boys in her class.

Yesterday, I was picking up my 2 younger children and saw DD's class out of the window playing outside. DD was in a corner alone, digging earth with a stick, far away from her classmates who were all playing together.

When we got home, I asked her what she was doing there and she said she had wanted to join in the game of the other girls and had asked each one if she could play and they all said no.

This is not the first time she has been excluded. At the end of last year she mentioned to me a number of times that the other girls wouldn't let her play. I had wanted to bring it up with the school but her morah left a month before the summer vacation and DD was taught by a series of subs who did not know what was going on at recess.

DD is not an unsociable child and doesn't have any problematic behaviours. She is also extremely upbeat and optimistic, and kind of "accepts" bad things happening to her,putting a positive spin on everything. For example, she is battling some health concerns at the moment that we are still trying to get to the bottom of, and when I asked her how she felt when the girls wouldn't let her play, she said "I felt said about it, but I was also happy because at least my tummy wasn't hurting at that time."

I am wondering whether I should consider changing schools. It seems as if it would be an over-reaction, but social contact is important, especially if a child wants it. On the other hand, she is thriving academically and had great teachers and a relatively small class size in comparison to alternative schools. Incidently ( or not) the moms from this class are also quite exclusive and cliquey. I am not included in their clique. If I thought they would be up for it I would try to arrange for us to get together with one of the other families, but they're barely up for a conversation at the school gates.

Would you consider moving your child in these circumstances?
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chestnut




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 12 2019, 3:44 pm
Why don't you speak to the teacher first?
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amother




Burgundy


Post  Thu, Sep 12 2019, 3:48 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
My 7yo DD has just started second grade in the same school she was in last year. There are 5 girls (including her) and 10 boys in her class.

Yesterday, I was picking up my 2 younger children and saw DD's class out of the window playing outside. DD was in a corner alone, digging earth with a stick, far away from her classmates who were all playing together.

When we got home, I asked her what she was doing there and she said she had wanted to join in the game of the other girls and had asked each one if she could play and they all said no.

This is not the first time she has been excluded. At the end of last year she mentioned to me a number of times that the other girls wouldn't let her play. I had wanted to bring it up with the school but her morah left a month before the summer vacation and DD was taught by a series of subs who did not know what was going on at recess.

DD is not an unsociable child and doesn't have any problematic behaviours. She is also extremely upbeat and optimistic, and kind of "accepts" bad things happening to her,putting a positive spin on everything. For example, she is battling some health concerns at the moment that we are still trying to get to the bottom of, and when I asked her how she felt when the girls wouldn't let her play, she said "I felt said about it, but I was also happy because at least my tummy wasn't hurting at that time."

I am wondering whether I should consider changing schools. It seems as if it would be an over-reaction, but social contact is important, especially if a child wants it. On the other hand, she is thriving academically and had great teachers and a relatively small class size in comparison to alternative schools. Incidently ( or not) the moms from this class are also quite exclusive and cliquey. I am not included in their clique. If I thought they would be up for it I would try to arrange for us to get together with one of the other families, but they're barely up for a conversation at the school gates.

Would you consider moving your child in these circumstances?

My daughter was laughed at by six girls in her class for the past three years.
She was quiet, reserved and did not play with the girls on the block.
As soon as she was put into a daycamp class without those girls she blossomed.
Luckily the school put her into a different class (they tried for three years with those bullies but it did not work).
She is a new person, unrecognizable, plays with friends every day after school.

My niece switched to a chabad school after no friends in her old school.

Environment can sometimes be the only change that is needed.
sometimes therapy needs to be called therapy shmerapy.
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amother




cornflower


Post  Thu, Sep 12 2019, 3:50 pm
have you spoken to the school?

Personally I would definitely switch, not even a question. Social is waaay more important then anything else. 5 girls with politics is dreadful. I speak from experience. My older daughter had 5 other girls her age and she was friends with them and still she ended up being left out and it was horrible. It wasn't her imagination either, in retrospect her classmates agreed...

Might even switch right now and not wait for the year to be up. just switched my girls' school. Social wasn't the only reason but it was big part. Something else was the push. I was nervous that may be it wouldn't be better at the other school so why switch but it's waaaay better. I switched from the smaller, we make sure that the kids are in a good warm environment while giving them the highest academics bla bla bla to the local "dayschool" They are soooo much happier.

My 5 year old sounds like your 7 year. She's also very upbeat, always had a big smile on her face but also is dealing with a medical issue but different. She had one friend at the old school... The difference this year is mind blowing. She switched to a school where there is only one other girl her age and a ton of boys but the school is making it work for her by having the girls have recess with a different grade... Even with a clearly not ideal social situation she is still sooo much happier. I joke that she is a walking advertisement for the new school.

She is so incredibly happy and it's sad to listen to her talk about the other school. She asks to please never go back to the other school. She wants to stay here for the rest of her life...
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 12 2019, 4:01 pm
Are there 5 girls in her class, or 5 in the grade? If its 5 in the grade, get her out of there, fast. She's the designated outsider, and unless someone else joins the grade, that's not going the change. She's stuck. Think of this going on in 5th grade, and in 8th. Because that's likely.

Unless the other schools are horrible fits, move her. In fact, even if they are horrible fits, move her.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 12 2019, 4:44 pm
I agree. Move her. DD was in an excellent school with a very beloved morah, but the other girls all lived within a block of each other in the north end of town, and had been in school together since they were 2.

DD lived in the south end, and carpooled to school. Kindergarten was really bad for her, because she was a social outcast. The other girls (6 of them) wouldn't give her the time of day, and the boys pretty much ran riot.

First grade wasn't any better, and the boys started to bully her because they could see that she didn't have any friends to stand up for her. The school refused to intervene. The principal at the time was a weak man who couldn't stand up to the boy's parents, at risk of losing a lot of financial contributions.

DD and I both agreed that it was not a good place for her, and I switched. (Sadly, the next school wasn't any better, but that's a whole new rant. Eventually she ended up in public school, blossomed, and make all kinds of friends from every walk of life. It's the best thing that ever happened to her.)

Why don't parents teach (and model) good middos to their kids? I hate cliques so much. Sad
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amother




Maroon


Post  Thu, Sep 12 2019, 4:57 pm
I would definitely consider a move, because a six girl grade has real social implications because there aren't a lot of options. But, please check with the teacher, and last year's teacher too. It's possible there are things going on that you aren't seeing. And yes, it's possible for the other girls to be acting wrongly and for your dd to need to work on some things. Some kids are really good with adults and not great with kids, for example; they're on a different wavelength. And often, the other kids aren't nice about it.

Especially if dd is a little different, it's good to have more kids to have more options of girls who "get" her, even if it's just having dealt with some adversity already.
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amother




Lemon


Post  Thu, Sep 12 2019, 5:45 pm
I would only switch if the school isn't being helpful. Give that a shot first, at least before you do something drastic. That's a pretty basic step 1.
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sarahmalka




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 12 2019, 5:56 pm
I would switch schools. I wish I had switched mine already. My DD is in 8th grade with 5 girls and it's a nightmare, has not improved in all these years despite the school "trying." Looking back the writing was on the wall at least 3 years ago and I wish I had paid attention. From what I hear and have experienced, there is no changing social dynamics like these in a small class. We have few Jewish options here but if you do, go for it.
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amother




OP


Post  Thu, Sep 12 2019, 5:59 pm
Of course I am going to speak to the school. I have requested an appointment with her morah and am waiting to hear back, but this morah is new to the job/ school and the children have only been back at school for a week so she won't have much to tell me. The morah from last year left a month before the summer vacation and the class didn't have a regular teacher during that month.

I also feel that the morot are limited in what they can do. It's not as if they can insist the other girls play with my daughter. They can try and encourage them to play together but if the other girls have become a clique, I don't know what the morot can do.

As I mentioned, she was without a regular morah for the last month of first grade, and when I managed to speak to someone who had been teaching her, she said that DD liked staying in the classroom doing crafts during recess, when DD had told me that she only stayed n the classroom because the other girls said she couldn't play with them.
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oneofakind




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 12 2019, 6:47 pm
Send her to school with an awesome new toy/game. See if that helps and speak to the teacher if there is something your daughter could be doing that is socially inappropriate. Yes they could intervene. They could have discussions in class about including everyone. They can supervise during recess and especially since there are so few girls, organize group games.
Worse comes to worse, switch schools but if there is an issue, it just follows along.
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amother




OP


Post  Fri, Sep 13 2019, 6:36 am
To answer some of the questions…

There are 2 second grade classes, 5 girls in DD's class and 6 in the other including one new girl who started last week. DD and 2 of the other girls in her class have been together at school for 4 years now (this is the fifth.) One girl started in kindergarten, and one started last year in first grade.

I had 2 scheduled meeting with her morot last year and specifically asked about her social interaction. They said there are no problems, she is not inapropriate in any way and this is true from what I can see as well. I know it's not the same, but when we go to the park, she does not seem to have any problems playing with other girls, and for a week and a half in the summer when we were on vacation, she was very well accepted and popular among the group of girls we were with (who she had never met before but some of them knew each other well.)

She is not a shy, shrinking violet type. She is also not the type who relates better to adults.

She has also never said that she is unhappy at school, but she is also the type to find something positive in everything.

I have sent her to school today with some cool pencils to give to the other girls to try to connect with them and I'll hopefully speak to her morot next week.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Sep 13 2019, 7:23 am
If the mothers are all friends, the girls probably play together after school and on weekends and these relationships carry over into school.
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amother




Royalblue


Post  Fri, Sep 13 2019, 7:34 am
would they switch her to the other class?
do you think that would help?
do both classes have recess together, lunch etc?
does she have friends in the other class? can you foster those relationships?
what is your other option for a different school?
good you are on top of this now and considering all options.
hugs and hatzlocha
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amother




OP


Post  Wed, Oct 30 2019, 6:15 am
OP here with an update.

I had a meeting with the morot soon after I made the OP and was surprised to hear that they had already spotted what was going on and had guessed that this was what I wanted to talk to them about.

They said that on a couple of occasions since, they had encouraged the other girls to play with my DD, which my DD confirms (She actually said "luckily the other girls let me play today.")

The morot said that they think the issue is that DD is a lot more mature than the other girls and they perhaps find her difficult to relate to. I know that she IS mature for her age and she is also the oldest which compounds the issue, but to me that doesn't explain why they would refuse to include her in a game they were already playing (I would understand if DD had proposed a game they didn't want to play.)

I feel that they either don't understand or underestimate the "clique" factor in the problem.

A couple of weeks later, I met one of DD's other morot who teaches both 2nd grade classes. She also told me that DD is more mature than the other girls in her class and she should try to play more with the girls in the other class who in her experience are more mature that those in DD's class. I mentioned one girl and said my DD has been to her house so maybe those two could be encouraged to play together. The morah said "Actually we're trying to get your DD to play with Rochel."

I happen to know that Rochel is not popular with the other girls, and when she was in class with my DD in kindergarten, there were some problems with Rochel hitting my DD while waiting in line. This kind of blew over, but at least 2 moms from Rochel's class had to go into school last year because Rochel had been hitting their DDs so it seems as if Rochel still has some issues. I have suggested to my DD that we invite Rochel to play after school, but my DD doesn't want to. She is the ONLY girl out of both classes that my DD doesn't want to invite. I am concerned that the morot are trying to push these two to be friends just because they are both unpopular in their respective classes.

The latest thing that has happened is that DD told me that all the girls stayed in class during recess and drew pictures. All the other girls came to her desk and told her her picture was ugly and laughed at her. This is the first time DD has actually complained about something that happened. She had always been able to put a positive spin on it before, but this was outright meanness.
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Mayflower




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Oct 30 2019, 6:30 am
That is so painful.

I would suggest speaking to the school to see if you can convince them to let your daughter change classes. Since you say the girls from the other class are more mature, it could very well be that this would solve the problem and that no-one would have to "push" any friendship since she would naturally fit in the group. You could have DD invite the girl from the other class that she likes and see if a friendship can be encouraged.

If the school does not let her change classes, I think I would try to find another school.
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Bruria




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Oct 30 2019, 6:58 am
Ask to switch classes and see if that helps, if not, search for another school. Being bullied and excluded is awful. And being pushed a friendship with a girl that used to hit her doesn't make any sense.

Another thing: make sure she has playdates with kids from outside school, like your friend's daughters or cousins, even if it's only once a week, so she doesn't feel lonely.
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sarahmalka




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Oct 30 2019, 7:17 am
Mayflower wrote:
That is so painful.

I would suggest speaking to the school to see if you can convince them to let your daughter change classes. Since you say the girls from the other class are more mature, it could very well be that this would solve the problem and that no-one would have to "push" any friendship since she would naturally fit in the group. You could have DD invite the girl from the other class that she likes and see if a friendship can be encouraged.

If the school does not let her change classes, I think I would try to find another school.

Exactly this. I'm so sorry for your DD. Like I said earlier I wish I'd gotten my DD out of her mean and excluding class years ago. We plan to switch the coming year. If you're in a place with options, exercise those options ASAP! And op thanks for updating us.


Last edited by sarahmalka on Wed, Oct 30 2019, 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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abound




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Oct 30 2019, 8:09 am
Keep your daughter home till they either change her class or you find a new school for her.
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camp123




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Oct 30 2019, 8:40 am
Either switch classes or schools yesterday. There is nothing a teacher can do to make girls kind quickly enough. Five girls is simply not enough for a class. Only switch to a school with at least 11 girls in a class or even better 15.
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